From nobody Wed Jun 19 19:44:35 2002 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Mizuna -- what to do with it? Date: 19 Jun 2002 19:44:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 11 This year I tried some greens for the first time, and one of them is called Mizuna. It's done very well, making huge plants. Now I just need to know what to do with it. :-) Are all the leaves edible, or should I be waiting for some sort of head to form in the center? Any recipe suggestions? Thanks, -- Aaron From nobody Wed Jun 19 19:47:41 2002 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: How are your herbs and other edibles doing? References: Date: 19 Jun 2002 19:47:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 21 Not the Karl Orff writes: > I'm curious as to how everyone's herbs are doing this year. I'm a > balcony gardener with a sunny south-facing balcony that gets sun > all-day except early mornings and late evenings near the summer > solstice I tried starting basil and parsley three times -- twice inside, once directly in the garden. Never saw a plant. It's probably too late to find plants now, but I'm going to check. It was a strange spring here in west-central IL: very cold and wet later into spring than normal, then quickly turning hot. We never really had any 60-70 degree weather to speak of. It's been good for some things (lettuce and cabbage) and bad for others (tomatoes and peppers). -- Aaron From nobody Fri Jun 21 08:34:21 2002 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: HUGE Tomato Worm? Identify? References: Date: 21 Jun 2002 08:34:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 15 "grubber" writes: > If you see one of these guys with small white things on its back, > leave it alone. Those are eggs of a parasitic wasp that will > control the worms in the future. The hornworms generally don't eat > much once the eggs have appeared. I was thinking the 'corncob' things he's seeing might be tomato worms covered with the wasp eggs. Anyone know a site with pictures of the above that the original poster could check? -- Aaron From nobody Tue Jun 25 22:01:40 2002 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Corn not knee high References: Date: 25 Jun 2002 22:01:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 21 "Angela Goodwin" writes: > As the old saying goes corn should be knee high by the fourth of > July. Well my corn in only ankle high. My first batch I planted > died in an unexpected hail storm, so I replanted and these are doing > great but I'm worried I planted to late. They are sweet corn so I > know they probably won't get as high as field corn (I think). We > live in Seattle, we have pretty mild weather year round, but where I > come from (Ohio) they always said it should be knee high by the > fourth of july and usually it was. So are my plants doomed? Its my > first year I've had somewhat success in planting a garden. Sounds like you're doing fine. That saying is about field corn, which grows to 8' high or more. Sweet corn rarely gets over 5' or so, and won't be nearly as tall at the same time of year as field corn. Also, it'll grow very quickly when the weather gets hot. -- Aaron From nobody Wed Jun 26 10:10:43 2002 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Anyone, Please Help ID'ing Pepper References: Date: 26 Jun 2002 10:10:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 19 "Mangoman" writes: > I bought a small plant at Home Depot that had a tag on it > identifying it as a Cayanne Pepper bush. Well now that peppers have > started growing, I think someone switched the tags on me. Does > anyone know what it might be because I am rather certain that these > are not cayanne peppers. I have put 4 pictures up on my ftp server. > My server address is: 4.40.30.96 > The username for this is: plant > The password for this is: pepper Most web browsers should accept a URL of the form . -- Aaron From nobody Wed Jun 26 18:05:24 2002 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Growing potatoes? References: Date: 26 Jun 2002 18:05:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 11 "Sam Roza" writes: > How long do potatoes stay in the ground? When are they ready? Are > there any external(above ground) indicators? The plants die. -- Aaron From nobody Sat Jun 29 07:22:43 2002 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Corn problem? References: <5ee850fe.0206282016.7fb995b9@posting.google.com> Date: 29 Jun 2002 07:22:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 27 mlowry3@bellsouth.net (Mark) writes: > Problem is this: now most of it is 3 1/2 to 4' high, and the frondy > things on top have opened and are dropping their pollen all over the > place. But there are no ears growing, not even swellings along the > stalk to indicate where they might be. No silk peeking out or > anything. That's odd. The tassels ('frondy things') usually show up before the ears, but they shouldn't actually start to drop pollen until the ears have silks. Are you sure they're really dropping pollen? > The individual plants are probably a little too close together -- > about 6". I realize this is too close, but would it make any > difference at this point to thin the plot further? I doubt it. I wouldn't consider that too close anyway. We plant 3 seeds per hole, 1 foot apart, and generally average 2 plants per hole, so that works out the same as yours. I think all you can do is wait and see what happens. Maybe the ears will come on soon, and there will still be pollen for them. -- Aaron From nobody Sun Jun 30 20:37:37 2002 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: 1st time veg. garden questions References: <3D1F8EC4.A0EA6417@execonn.com> Date: 30 Jun 2002 20:37:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 31 Marshall Dudley writes: > Now everything is growing quite well, but I have another problem. > How do you keep the deer from eating everything! Here's my treatise on keeping coons out that I posted a few weeks ago; most of it applies as well to deer. If that breaks, it's supposed to be one URL. > Oh yeh, one other question. My irish potatoes (the only thing in > the garden not getting eaten), seem to have put on a bunch of what > appear to be small tomatoes. I have searched the net and found that > this is a seed ball. They say to never plant potatoes from see, > always do it with seed potatoes. I am curious why this is the case. > What is wrong with using the seeds from potatoes? I don't know; I'll be curious to see what others say. But you normally get potato plants by planting the potatoes themselves, usually after cutting them into chunks with 2-3 eyes (sprouts) each. So you don't have to buy seed potatoes; you can use your own if you have saved any over the winter, or buy whole potatoes and cut them up. Don't use the russet potatoes you get in the grocery, though; they're garbage compared to a good home-garden variety. -- Aaron From nobody Mon Jul 8 08:12:02 2002 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Remember when I was cocky? References: <0722094B1DA2A2C2.CF60136C0ADD6CA0.A2B0A69F1572F1CC@lp.airnews.net> Date: 08 Jul 2002 08:12:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 20 Kevin Miller writes: > I've decided to try again... I saw a bunch of little marble-sized > black poops in a pile about the size of a frisbee... is this > rabbits? I also saw what looked to be hoof prints around what used > to be cucs. My edition won't let me put up a 10 foot fence, nor > electric. I am thinking a 4 foot fence for little animals. Would > this be ANY deterent for deer? No. If your fence is only 4 feet high, you might as well lay it flat on the ground. They won't want to walk on it, so that could confuse them a little. (Won't help against the rabbits, though.) I've seen deer easily clear 48" fence with two barbed wires on top, totalling about 54". Running uphill. -- Aaron From nobody Tue Jul 9 06:07:17 2002 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Another idea about deer fence References: <86DB5CAB4E0F3E69.2D5B286336F57103.83822654AA73FBB0@lp.airnews.net> Date: 09 Jul 2002 06:07:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 36 Kevin Miller writes: > I've been reading non-stop about this and I've seen that deer > can jump over fencing even at 8 to 10 ft. That seems exaggerated to me, but then I've never seen one try. > Anyways, what about a 6 ft. fence that is wood and that they can't > see thru? I can't help but think that... > a) They can't see whats growing in the fenced area They can still smell it. > b) They also won't see a landing spot everyone says is so vital to > their jumping True, that makes a big difference. Animals don't like to step or jump on what they can't see or understand. I think your solid 6' fence would work, unless the deer were just starving and your garden were the only food around. Having the fence be solid helps because they need to completely clear it, rather than letting their feet drag like they could over a woven-wire fence. Plus, if it turns out to be a little short, you could probably add a hot-wire or barbed-wire to the top easily enough. I would think in most cases, a couple of hot-wires spaced chest-high and waist-high would keep deer out. Sure, they *can* jump it, but they won't want to come that close to it. On the farm, the problem we usually have with deer and hot-wires isn't that they jump it, but that they sometimes get spooked and run through it and break it. -- Aaron From nobody Thu Jul 11 08:29:47 2002 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: what's eating my tomatoes now? References: <3D2C4E40.6B486A76@fuse.net> Date: 11 Jul 2002 08:29:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 17 hillary@hillary.net (Hillary Israeli) writes: > Well, I've never seen any raccoons or groundhogs around here (the > groundhogs congregate in the grassier areas, and the raccoons - > well, I've never seen one on this neighborhood at all). Raccoons are nocturnal; you'll rarely see them during the day. I saw a huge one in the yard at 4:00am this morning after my dog spotted it out the window and woke me up. You'll see groundhogs more often during the day, but primary around dawn when the feed. Squirrels are the same way. -- Aaron From nobody Thu Jul 25 05:21:00 2002 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: weird sunflower? References: <1kzackREMOVETHE1-6C99C6.00281123072002@usenet.stanford.edu> <1kzackREMOVETHE1-F1960F.00470025072002@usenet.stanford.edu> Date: 25 Jul 2002 05:21:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 25 Karen Zack <1kzackREMOVETHE1@mac.com> writes: > OH NO!!! You mean to tell me that this is a WEED??!!!? Argh!! The > pictures look exactly like the 2 plants in my garden, so I guess the > mystery is solved. Dunno about the odor, since the flowers have been > closed up all this week. Yes, it's a weed. We used to cut a lot of it out of soybean fields before herbicides became ubiquitous. > Sounds like the seeds can survive practically forever. Should I > yank the plant now that I know what it is? One of them is literally > inches from my cantaloupe (which has 3 adorable melons on it), and I > don't want to disturb the melon's roots. I could cut it down, since > it does shade the melon some... Just cut it off near the ground. It's shade probably wouldn't be a big deal, but you don't want it going to seed in your garden. I doubt it'll come back, especially if it's shaded. If you think the seeds might be near viability, compost the plant or burn it. -- Aaron From nobody Wed Jul 31 15:20:22 2002 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Pointed Bell Peppers References: <1028120400.893576@axilla.wwnet.net> Date: 31 Jul 2002 15:20:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 19 bregent writes: > Could be. The thing about these peppers is that they started out > yellow. In another thread, someone mentioned that their golden bells > start out green. I have a red bell right next to these yellows, and > they are boxy and green. > So, if they really aren't golden bells, what could they be? They are > now about 4-5" long and about 2" across. The golden bells I grew last year started out somewhat green, but it was a much more yellowish green than a normal green/red bell pepper. Next to the others, they actually did look yellowish right from the start, but they got a much brighter yellow when they ripened. -- Aaron From nobody Mon Sep 2 21:43:28 2002 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Sudden rash reaction to veggie plants References: Date: 02 Sep 2002 21:43:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 19 DaveH writes: > It seems that I've suddenly developed an allergy to my veggie > garden, at least to bean and tomato plants. Contact with bean plants > always made me itch, but that was cured with washing. Now I break > out in a hideous rash. Maters may be producing the reaction. So bad > I had to use steroid cream. > Anybody else have this problem? Now I have to wear long sleeves and > gloves. I've had itching after working around tomatoes and potatoes. Both are members of the nightshade family, so I suppose there's a connection there. I'm afraid I don't have a solution. -- Aaron From nobody Fri Sep 27 05:52:38 2002 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: WEST NILE VIRUS IN BEEF, PORK & POULTRY References: <20020916141902.05495.00005211@mb-fc.aol.com> <928B62D26anchhoncho@167.206.3.2> <3d93d027$0$1434$2c3e98f8@news.voyager.net> Date: 27 Sep 2002 05:52:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 19 THE TRUTH writes: > Or a herd of cattle, a farm full of pigs or a poultry farm full of > chickens. If this begins affecting livestock across the country, > prepare to see the price of meat skyrocket at the store. It shouldn't. The carcass price of pork right now is less than fifty cents/pound. So when you pay $3/lb for those pork chops at the store, less than $.50 of that is paying for the meat; the rest pays for the butchering, transportation, packaging, marketing, etc. If a big cut in supply *doubled* the farmer's take, your $3/lb chops should only rise to about $3.50/lb. Any greater rise than that means someone in the 'food chain' is taking advantage of hysteria to pocket some extra profits. -- Aaron From nobody Wed Oct 9 20:52:02 2002 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Re(2): no-till gardening? References: Date: 09 Oct 2002 20:52:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 34 glenna@pmug.org (Glenna Rose) writes: > For those of you in the real farm country (Midwest), did this > eastern Washington farm girl explain it correctly? Sure did. In most cases around here (west central IL), straw is made from wheat stubble. Usually, the combine cuts off the wheat, threshes out the grain, and dumps the loose straw out the back in a narrowed row. Later a baler is used to bale it into either small square bales that can be lifted by hand, or the large round bales that are moved with a tractor. [To complete the other side of the ledger] Hay is when you cut a green crop, usually alfalfa or clover, with more or less grass mixed in; then let it dry one or more days; then bale. As for which would be better for your garden, it depends on what your soil needs. Hay, being cut green, will add more nitrogen to the soil. Straw, being dead tough stuff, adds more aeration, which helps to loosen compacted soil. If your soil doesn't need anything specific, a mix of both would be good. > Loose straw, freshly threshed, is one of the most flammable things > around and is nearly impossible to extinguish once on fire. Interestingly, packed straw, such as straw bales, burns very poorly and can be used to build houses and other buildings. It's much less flammable than stick construction, and has a tremendous insulation rating. -- Aaron From nobody Mon Oct 14 18:05:51 2002 Newsgroups: alt.culture.ny-upstate,rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Theft and pumpkins. Re: Pumpkins References: <335fqugcfn7ahlamcobg0qhc6vgpvm1son@4ax.com> <6gefquc1m4u4b51b8vfl96jjlhketdjpt2@4ax.com> <0blhquck0hts6uc9344k1nuc989ssqkumh@4ax.com> <3DA95071.11C2D098@psknet.com> <0Qzq9.5431$L9.639915@read2.cgocable.net> <96qlquolcaudac083j7ks1n5bsiv67skbd@4ax.com> Date: 14 Oct 2002 18:05:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 21 "Mr Fixit" writes: > As I understand it, it's not so much a small bone problem as it is a > *hollow* bone problem. Birds have hollow bones (lighter weight for > flying). When a hollow bone is broken/chewed it splinters into very > sharp, pointed pieces. As I understand it (which may be completely wrong) it's not a bone problem, but a *cooked* bone problem. I've read that dogs have no problem with raw bones from chicken and other birds, but when you cook chicken, the bones become brittle and splinter much worse than when they're raw. Dunno if there's anything to it, though. We don't give leftover chicken bones to our dog, but she usually goes and finds them wherever I throw them out. -- Aaron From nobody Mon Oct 14 18:07:26 2002 Newsgroups: alt.culture.ny-upstate,rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Theft and pumpkins. Re: Pumpkins References: <9897485.0210060336.37760369@posting.google.com> <8eo3quc6c170rfqnmd8ois22vtvknu6cp1@4ax.com> <335fqugcfn7ahlamcobg0qhc6vgpvm1son@4ax.com> <6gefquc1m4u4b51b8vfl96jjlhketdjpt2@4ax.com> <0blhquck0hts6uc9344k1nuc989ssqkumh@4ax.com> <3DA95071.11C2D098@psknet.com> Date: 14 Oct 2002 18:07:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 16 "Jason Quick" writes: > "DECK THE HARRS WIF BOUGHS OF HOR-RY, > FA-RA-RA-RA, RAAHHH, RA-RA-RA-RAAAAHHH! > [Tells self: Next month I can watch it...before then it's too > early.] Great movie. The last couple years, TNT (or TBS) has run a 24-hour "A Christmas Story" marathon on Christmas Eve (I think). I try to catch at least a couple airings. -- Aaron From nobody Fri Oct 18 17:43:14 2002 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Theft and pumpkins. Re: Pumpkins References: <20021018155059.16451.00001941@mb-cn.news.cs.com> Date: 18 Oct 2002 17:43:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 30 mossytrail@cs.compuserve (Jie-san Laushi) writes: > Hmmm...I remember driving across the Corn Country (Indiana, > Illinois, Iowa) and seeing those signs along the freeway "no > parking" (I am more used to "emergency stopping only.") I suppose > it is to prevent theft of corn. Nope. You could fill your car with corn, and not make a dent in a cornfield. Racoons and deer wipe out more corn than theives ever would. Those signs are there for the same reason as the signs you're used to -- to avoid having stopped cars on the side of the road where they're a hazard. If you want 'free' corn, wait until your local farmers have harvested it, and then ask one of them who doesn't have livestock to turn into his fields if you can walk around out there and pick up dropped ears. Most grain farmers don't have cattle or hogs to clean up spilled grain these days. You can probably find one who won't mind. Combines typically lose around 5 bushels/acre, oftentimes more. Some of that will be shelled, but much of it will be full or partial ears. You can pick up quite a few ears in an afternoon. Look especially in the corners of the field and places where the combine turned; it'll tend to knock more stalks and ears down there than in the straightaways. -- Aaron From nobody Tue Oct 22 06:41:09 2002 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: types of straw References: <3DB36537.5815@att.net> <3db3b158$0$23171$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <3DB4BE3A.7FDA@att.net> Date: 22 Oct 2002 06:41:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 90 Bobbett writes: > That's what I was told, too, but do you know the *name* for the > stuff without the seeds? Here it's called 'straw'. It may have a few seeds in it, but far fewer than hay. Since this topic seems to come up quite a bit, here's my wordy explanation for city slickers, hereafter to be referred to on google. Here's how you make hay: ----------------------- You plant a field to some sort of high nutrient cover crop, usually alfalfa or clover. Often you mix in some grass, because for many animals (horses), a diet of hay with no grass would be too rich; the grass provides some filler. Some weeds may grow, but the hay crop should keep them under control. When the hay is 'ready,' you cut it off right above the ground, let it dry a day or two, turning it over once or more, and then bale it up. Whatever's growing in the field ends up in the bale. To get the best quality hay for feed, you try to cut the hay *before* it goes to seed -- in fact, the best time is right before it blooms. You should end up with a green bale which has a lot of leafy stuff in it and not a lot of stems. There will be more stems in the hay that's cut earlier in the year. However, the weather doesn't always cooperate, and with other work on the farm competing for time, hay often won't get cut until after this ideal time. Also, the hay and grass may not mature at the same time, so the grass may have already gone to seed when the hay is ready to cut. Any weeds that are present may also have gone to seed. So for all those reasons, hay will have seeds in it. A hopeful point, though: hay fields are usually not sprayed with chemicals like grain fields are, so weed seeds that you get in hay may not be as difficult to kill as seeds from plants that have survived many sprayings. (This year, for the first time, I saw large patches of cockleburrs that survived Roundup.) On to straw: ----------- You plant a field to a grain crop, usually wheat around here. When the wheat has dried and is ready to harvest, you combine it. The combine threshes the wheat seed out of the stalk, and drops the stalk on the ground, where it's picked up later and baled. The combine isn't perfect, so some wheat seeds will make it into the straw. Unlike hay, which is cut when still green and growing, straw is made from fully dead stalks. So the wheat seeds in straw are mature and ready to germinate. Also, any weeds that were in the wheat field may have mature seed as well. These seeds are more likely to be from weed strains that survived herbicides than the weed seeds found in hay. Straw bales should be yellow when new, but will fade in sunlight to a yellowish off-white color. Straw is *all* stems; if you pull out a handful, it should look like something you'd make a broom out of. Straw has very little food value, so it's mostly used as livestock bedding. If you can get straw that has already been used to bed livestock, you'll get the added benefit of manure for your garden. Final analysis: -------------- Hay and straw both have seeds, but hay almost always has more seeds than straw. Hay is higher in nitrogen; straw has few nutrients but adds aeration and helps soil stay loose. If you pile either one deep enough, it'll prevent weeds from coming up -- at least until it rots enough for sunlight to get through. If you want to kill the seeds entirely, compost the hay or straw completely first, before adding it to your garden. In the case of straw, that'll kill the seeds, but it'll also reduce some of the straw's effectiveness at reducing soil compaction. My suggestion: If your focus is on nitrogen, get hay; if you're trying to loosen up your soil, get straw. For mulching under plants which lay their fruits on the ground, like strawberries and tomatoes, straw works better because it doesn't hold water. If you don't have specific needs, get either or both. Pile it nice and thick, but save back a bale or two. When a weed comes up through a thin spot, pull the weed and spread some more hay or straw in that spot. At the end of the season, till it all under, unless you're planning to try year-round mulch gardening -- something I'm considering. -- Aaron From nobody Wed Oct 23 17:41:02 2002 Newsgroups: rec.gardens,rec.gardens.ecosystems,rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Why not compost fat? References: Date: 23 Oct 2002 17:41:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 17 "Robert" writes: > Some composting instructions tell you not to put fat or meat into > the compost. Why is this? In my experience they decompose rapidly > and it is a good way to get rid of these items of food waste 1. Meat may turn rancid and stink. 2. It'll attrack flies which will lay eggs which will become maggots -- thus enhancing the stink. 3. Varmits and pets may dig through the compost to get to the meat. -- Aaron From nobody Fri Oct 25 19:35:04 2002 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: had a question about garden size References: Date: 25 Oct 2002 19:35:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 43 "jmv" writes: > what is a good size for a garden? i recently moved into a new house > that has a bright sunny back yard with no landscaping whatsoever and > I plan on tilling some of the grass under for a veg garden. I have > gotten mixed advice and am a little overwhelmed on where(and when!) > to start. That's a pretty wide-open question, and the answer depends on a lot of variables. For starters: 1. Have you gardened before? 2. How much time do you have to spend on it? 3. How many different varieties of vegetables would you like to have? 4. How much room do you have? 5. Do you plan to can/freeze/dry any produce, or just use it fresh? If you're not experienced, I would start small. You can always expand your garden, but once you've tilled up a spot, it'll take some work to turn it back into nice yard if you decide your garden is too large. The downside to this is that if you hire the tilling done, you might need to hire more done again next year, but that shouldn't be a huge expense either way. When I took gardening in 4-H as a kid, the first year project was a 10' x 10' garden, having about half a dozen different vegetables. Then the next year you advanced to 10' x 20' (I think) with more varieties, and the next year bigger, and so on. It's easy to overdo it, especially in the spring when every vegetable seems like a good idea. This year I'm putting together my seed order in the fall, while my memories of weeding, picking, and mulching are still fresh. In the spring, my ambition tends to get the best of my common sense. -- Aaron From nobody Wed Nov 13 06:56:49 2002 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Soil Conditioning for Newbies? References: Date: 13 Nov 2002 06:56:48 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 44 dohcam@hotmail.com (Cameron Lee) writes: > 1. Our garden spot sits at the foot of a 5-foot railroad tie > retaining wall. I've heard that chemicals leaching out from the > treated wood can interfere with vegetation. The wall is quite old, > however (at least ten years). You'll get a whole range of opinions on this, but personally I wouldn't spend a second worrying about it. On the list of "Carcinogens We Encounter Daily" I'd put chemicals leaching from old railroad ties pretty low. If you decide to replace the wall, either right away or when it sags in the future, you can use rock, brick, concrete, or naturally weather-resistant timbers. > 2. The previous owners used the spot as a dog run, and I assume the > ground has seen quite a bit of dog urine and feces for the last > several years. This is a good thing, as it adds nitrogen to the soil. Too much manure can burn plants, but that's usually only a problem when you're spreading it fresh. Just till it under. Odds are, the soil will be compacted, so you'll want to loosen it up. I would spread several inches of plant matter over it -- straw, hay, grass clippings, leaves, whatever -- and till that under now. Then, if it's not too late in the year, sow a winter cover crop like winter rye, and till that under in the spring. If you want to get more scientific, call your county extension office and ask them how to get a soil sample. Around here, you put some dirt in a small bag they give you, and pay them a few bucks to test it. This will tell you if you need to add potassium, ash, lime, etc. In general, though, I would expect a spot like this to be fairly well balanced PH-wise -- at least well enough to get started. Then, if things didn't seem to grow well the first year, I'd do the testing. I would say the more critical thing will be to get some stuff tilled into the soil to loosen it up. -- Aaron From nobody Wed Nov 13 14:20:26 2002 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Soil Conditioning for Newbies? Date: 13 Nov 2002 14:20:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 26 Polar writes: > HORRIFIED! > Areas polluted by dog poop should be (a) avoided or (b) subjected to > a thorough process of sterilization. Otherwise worms can cause > blindness. > If anybody has later data on this, I would like to review. But > AFAIK, it is a BAD idea to grow food crops in dog poop area w/o > thorough sterilization -- not a 5-minute process. Whatever. I hope you never eat food sold in a grocery store. It's all grown in fields where wild animals -- all of which could have worms or worse -- manure all the time. Seems like it'd be hard to avoid. It's useful to not let livestock graze too closely on land that might be wormy (otherwise known as 'everywhere') because they can get worms that way. But I've never heard of getting worms through the plants themselves. Got a link? -- Aaron From nobody Wed Nov 13 18:44:02 2002 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Soil Conditioning for Newbies? Date: 13 Nov 2002 18:44:02 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 28 Polar writes: > I was under the impression that most food is grown in tightly > controlled factory farms, such as the great Central Valley of > California, which produces about 1/3 of all U.S. produce. Unless those farms are surrounded by electric netting, various wild, possibly-diseased animals will be using them for bathrooms. Even if land animals were somehow kept out, you'd still have bird droppings. Even if you eat only vegetables that are somehow grown 'feces-free,' I guarantee you that the corn, soybeans, and wheat that are grown here in the Midwest aren't. > Googling under "dog feces", many, many sites, of which: > http://www.gardenfoundation.com/pets/veggiepoopquestion.htm Thanks, that's interesting reading. I learned a couple things: 1. There's not much special about dog manure; all animals can carry worms, e-coli, and other harmful stuff. 2. Wash your food. -- Aaron From nobody Thu Nov 14 05:33:01 2002 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Why Garden? References: <6b851645.0211131830.407f8ccb@posting.google.com> Date: 14 Nov 2002 05:33:01 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 34 SJgerdemann@yahoo.com (Steve Gerdemann) writes: > In the spring the birds ate all my peas seeds even though they were > already germinated. I finally figured out that it was birds not > slugs eating the seeds so a month later when I planted beans I > covered seeds. I had more bean plants than ever but a few months > later the deer ate most of the beans. For good measure they ate the > tops off all the pepper plants too. The carrots were looking great > and almost ready to harvest when the neutria ate them all in one > night. I hope it had a stomachache. A few days later the neutria > returned for the potatoes. Fortunately I had already harvested > some. I planted a few carrots late in the season in hopes that I > might be able to harvest a few in the fall but the deer ate their > tops plus most of the fall lettuce. I could have written a very similar paragraph, except replacing 'nutria' and 'deer' with 'groundhogs' and 'coons.' My peas never really came up in the first place though; I'm going to try pre-germinating them next year. My peppers (green and hot) were the one thing that did well; apparently groundhogs don't like them anymore than real hogs do. Once the watermelons starting setting on, it was all over for everything. I trapped and killed two big groundhogs, and thought for a few days that I'd fixed the problem, but more moved in quickly -- smarter ones that didn't seem to be trappable. Before next year, I'll be putting a solid fence of hog panels and chicken wire around the whole thing. -- Aaron From nobody Thu Nov 14 05:33:27 2002 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Nutria- there's hope References: <3DC921FE.8070000@netscape.net> <3DCE9822.FD72C924@logic.net> <3DCF9B9E.3040201@netscape.net> Date: 14 Nov 2002 05:33:27 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 12 Kelvyn Stevens writes: > Do the sheriffs shoot everyone that makes a hole in the dyke ??? or > just nutria....seems a very american solution....there would be > other ways of eradicating rodents !! What non-American methods do you suggest? -- Aaron From nobody Mon Dec 23 18:10:18 2002 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Re(2): Treated Wood for Raised Bed References: Date: 23 Dec 2002 18:10:18 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 13 "Dwayne" writes: > Maybe we should make a law requiring the industry to identify the > type of preservatives and any possible harmful effects they may > have, and post that information on their products. I believe this is already required. At least, here in Illinois, treated lumber comes with a warning tag about that stuff on the end. -- Aaron From nobody Tue Feb 4 14:40:20 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Mantis tiller References: Organization: ESC Date: 04 Feb 2003 14:40:18 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 36 jrlong@vt.edu (Jerome R. Long) writes: > My Mantis is a terrific tool for cultivating an established garden > with not too many rocks. It is not a sod buster. True. It will break sod, but it's just so small that you wouldn't want to do more than a very small patch with it. The biggest problem I had was that weeds or grass of any length at all wanted to wind up on the tines very badly. The Mantis is really more suited to cultivating and re-working soil that was previously worked and cleared of most vegetation by a larger tiller. It'll do a nice job of breaking cloddy dirt down into a fine soil for planting. It's much easier to handle than I expected; it doesn't pull or jerk much at all. > If you can keep a chain saw running you will have no trouble getting > the Mantis to start and run well. I'd say the Mantis is much more temperamental. If you maintain it exactly according to the instructions as far as weather and winterizing go, it might run great for years. Mine ran fine the first year, but after a winter in the garage after forgetting to empty the gas from it, it wouldn't run. I cleaned the spark plug and carburetor and got a new fuel filter, and was able to get it to start and idle, but as soon as I put a load on it, it dies. I'm no small engine expert, but I can generally get a stubborn chainsaw or lawnmower to at least run well enough to get by. It appears that if I want to use my Mantis again I'll have to pay to have it worked on. My own fault, of course, for not storing it properly for the winter; but prospective buyers should be aware that they will need to take very good care of it. -- Aaron From nobody Fri Feb 28 07:05:42 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Strawberry pests References: <3e5b46e7.3520143@news.ix.netcom.com> <3e5b8009.658935@news.ix.netcom.com> <3e5bb6cf.14681507@news.ix.netcom.com> Organization: ESC Date: 28 Feb 2003 07:05:42 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 44 jfma@ixnospam.netcom.com (James Mayer) writes: > Anyone have a good receipe for 'possum or 'coon then? I haven't tried them, so I don't know how good they are, but here are a few: Basic Coon Cut up, boil in water with a little salt until tender. Place in shallow pan, sprinkle with a little sage, add one cup broth. Pre-cook about 5 medium size sweet potatoes, cut in half and place around coon. Bake in hot oven for 20 minutes. --------------------------- Old-Fashioned Coon Put one coon in salt and soda water and let stand overnight. Take out of water next morning and wash two times and put in kettle and boil until tender. Put in a bread pan and put pepper and sage on it and bake. Serve with sweet potatoes. --------------------------- Coon and Dressing Cut coon into small pieces and salt to taste. Cook in the inset pan of the pressure cooker for about an hour at 15 lb. pressure. Cook longer if it is an old and tough coon. When coon is tender, arrange pieces in a baking dish and cover with dressing made as follows: Moisten 8-10 slices of dry bread with the juice cooked from the coon and add 2 eggs, 2 T. sage, 1/2 tsp. ground cloves, and 1 T. salt. Bake in oven at 350 until the dressing is browned. This assures a tender, tasty coon without being too fat and greasy. Also good for possum. [ Recipes taken from _Flat-out Dirt-cheap Cookin'_ by Bruce Carlson. ] -- Aaron From nobody Thu Mar 6 06:17:32 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Ordered from Shumway? References: Organization: ESC Date: 06 Mar 2003 06:17:32 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 14 glenna@pmug.org (Glenna Rose) writes: > Has anyone ordered from Shumway this year? I have an order ready to > fax to them and wonder if anyone has had any experience with them > this year. We just sent in an order a few days ago, so no experience yet. We ordered a few things from them last year (their catalog was the only one we got with celeriac) and had no trouble. -- Aaron From nobody Sat Mar 22 08:18:39 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Re(2): Seven Biggest Cat Boxes in the County References: Organization: ESC Date: 22 Mar 2003 08:18:37 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 60 glenna@pmug.org (Glenna Rose) writes: Let me say up front that none of the following should be interpreted as a criticism of you personally. Your posts are always well-written and interesting, and that's what's most important. In almost ten years of regular Usenet usage, I've never seen this particular problem before, so I'm curious about it, not offended. If you'll tell us the name and version number of your newsreader, I'd be glad to help if I can. > I do click "Reply." The administrator of our service has tried to > find out what the problem is but my replies show up in the same > thread for him, not broken as several people here have said. What's happening is that somewhere along the line your posts are losing the References header. The References header looks something like this: References: It contains one or more values, which correspond to the Message-IDs of its parent posts in the thread. Newsreaders use that info to build the tree structure of a thread. If a post has no References header, most newsreaders will assume it's a new thread. > When you asked why I always start a fresh thread, you were making an > assumption which, like assumptions can be, is not fact. When I've > left the subject line the same, or any portion of it, I have clicked > "Reply." > Whether the thread is connected seems to depend on the newsreader > others are using rather than what I am doing. It does not happen on > all newsreaders, though it does happen on Google. Some newsreaders may seem to thread your posts correctly, but that's not quite what's happening. What they're doing is seeing an 'orphaned' post -- one that looks like a reply because the Subject starts with "Re:", but it has no References header -- and sorting it into the same thread with other posts with the same subject line. But whether or not your post shows up in contextual order is left up to chance. If you do Google searches a lot, you'll see this when a thread has a very common Subject line like "Help". When showing a thread view, Google will tend to slap a whole bunch of orphaned posts and sub-threads together, despite the fact that they have nothing in common other than having the same subject line and being in the same newsgroup. Your administrator should be able to track this problem down pretty easily, perhaps with a tool like tcpdump, which will track all the low-level traffic on a connection. By watching the incoming data as you send a post and the outgoing data when his server passes it upstream, he can tell when the References header is being lost and when the (2) is being added to the Subject line. -- Aaron From nobody Sun Mar 23 07:20:50 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible,alt.bbs.first-class Subject: Re: For Aaron References: Organization: ESC Date: 23 Mar 2003 07:20:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 93 glenna@pmug.org (Glenna Rose) writes: [About missing References: header in follow-ups.] > I'm using First Class, Version 5.611. Ah, all is becoming clear. FirstClass is a groupware-type package that includes a gateway to Usenet. There's a newsgroup for it at alt.bbs.first-class, and there were lengthy discussions there about this problem up through 1994. That tells me that either the problem was fixed in 1995, or no-one uses First Class anymore. :-) The current version of FC is 7.1, so your provider is two major versions behind. I'm guessing that upgrading to 7.1 would fix the problem, but it may also be expensive. > Occasionally, I post through a web page rather than First Class and > the problem doesn't happen. Yes, when you post through a web-based newsreader (like Google Groups), the server at the other end does the posting, and your web browser just sends the text that you type in. So it completely avoids the broken FC Usenet gateway. > Often, I've not contributed to threads because I know my responses > will be disconnected. I even went for a period of time that I > didn't contribute at all because of it. I do try to be considerate, > and this bothers some people greatly. However, it just isn't > practical to cut myself off completely because of it; that would be > like not taking part in a conversation because of being soft-voiced > and needing to repeat things for some people. Hey now, we're talking about your problems here, not mine. :-) > I'm thinking what I'd like to do is post through the same program > from a different computer and see if it happens there. However, to > do that, I need help from some people here who see my responses as > being disconnected. I'm totally up for having an experimental thread > going, perhaps named: OT-posting probelms or something similar so > most people don't even bother to read it. Sure; I'll be able to tell. > You mentioned the (2) being added; I see this when I respond. Do > you think if I simply deleted it that all would be okay? That might help, because then at least the subjects would match, and some newsreaders would lump your post in with others with the same subject. That wouldn't get it properly threaded, but it could keep it from starting a new thread. > If I only click "Reply" then none of the original message stays. > So, when I respond, I first "Select All" from the original message > and then click "Reply." I don't see that "Select All" would affect > the subject line or the threading features, perhaps it does. That shouldn't make any difference, as far as I can imagine. > I'm certainly willing to try whatever can be done to the program to > correct the problem. If anyone is familiar with First Class and can > offer a solution, that would be most appreciated (by many of us!). > Perhaps if there is a way to display the reference header in my > messages (either incoming or outgoing), it could be corrected there. I'm going to cross-post this to alt.bbs.first-class. That seems like the most likely source of people who actually know what they're talking about. > If I were certain another version of First Class would correct this, > I'd most likely buy it. I use First Class because that is what the > provider through which I read the newsgroup uses, and there is much > more involved than newsgroup with the services (not quite like AOL > but different than most). It took a while to get used to it (old > dogs, new tricks kind of thing) but now that I'm used to it, I > really like it as there are many great features with it in other > areas. I doubt you could do that anyway. The client that you use on your computer talks to a server program on your ISP's end, and generally those things need to match up in version pretty closely to work. You could download the 7.1 client from firstclass.com, but it almost certainly wouldn't work with your ISP's 5.6xx system. However, I see now that they do have a 5.623 download available, which might be fine for upgrading from your 5.611. I'd check with your ISP first before trying that, though, just to be sure. -- Aaron From nobody Thu Apr 3 07:10:39 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Starting seeds now?? References: <3E8BBC55.F4D98076@mc.net> Organization: ESC Date: 03 Apr 2003 07:10:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 23 stan writes: > I have procrastinated to the point where I think I might be a bit > late. I want to know if you (the collective you) think it too late > to plant tomato and pepper seeds indoors? No, I'm in central Illinois, and just started some this week. I'm hoping to get the rest going this weekend. > Or should I pass and just buy the plants in the spring. I have > everything, I just need to sow them. It is a bit of a hassle for me > to keep the plants/seedlings watered and lighted or I wouldn't > care. Zone 5 N.Illinois. Thanks much. Stan Whenever I buy plants, I seem to get some that don't match the name on the marker. That's probably because I wait too long, and end up getting ones that have been picked over and moved around too many times. -- Aaron From nobody Fri Apr 4 16:54:41 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Onion tops References: Organization: ESC Date: 04 Apr 2003 16:54:41 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 15 glenna@pmug.org (Glenna Rose) writes: > How would these hold up frozen in ice cubes to drop into soup/stew > later? I'd expect it to work fine, but it's probably more trouble than you need to go to. When I freeze onions or celery for soup usage, I just chop it up and put it in a plastic bag or tub, throw it in the freezer, and stir it up once in a while as it freezes to keep it from forming into a solid block. -- Aaron From nobody Mon Apr 21 05:58:23 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Veggie soil question References: <14010-3EA2F2CD-219@storefull-2271.public.lawson.webtv.net> Organization: ESC Date: 21 Apr 2003 05:58:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 15 "Charlie" writes: > Yup, they're two different plants. Both can sprout, but IMHO straw > is more likely too (If I remember right). Nope, that's backwards. Hay almost always has seeds; good clean straw does not. Here's my dissertation on the subject, posted to this group last fall: -- Aaron From nobody Thu May 1 05:56:21 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Posting References: <9lk1bvcidne26r4p3egj4qfp3n8a0nut4p@4ax.com> <3EB0F78F.4090107@epix.com> Organization: ESC Date: 01 May 2003 05:56:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 36 Brian writes: > A top post contains the same amount of data as a bottom post. So > there is no difference in size that way. Wrong. Top-posters never trim. See how my reply to you is much shorter than if I'd just stuck my response at the top and left your message (and its parents in the thread) below it? Also, see how it's clear what part of your message each of my points is in reply to? > It could take longer to read if you have to look for the reply. That > is where I am lost. Do other mail programs always go to the bottom of > the thread ? No, but that's not necessary. "Bottom-post" is a misnomer. There's no need to scroll anywhere to read my posts, because my text starts close to the top, interspersed with the relevant quoted text. You don't have to scroll to read the new stuff, and you don't have to scroll to see what I'm replying to. Handy, huh? > If being charged for the net by minutes, may I suggest logging on, > downloading your messages and reading them off-line. That doesn't change the amount of stuff to be downloaded, which was the concern. > I will abide by with what the poll says, the majority rules. Mob rule can be an ugly thing. -- Aaron From nobody Thu May 1 09:29:47 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Posting Organization: ESC Date: 01 May 2003 09:29:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 49 Brian writes: > The debate is over top vrs bottom, not trimming posts. The person I > responded to was upset with top posters causing too much bandwidth > and time. A properly trimmed top post takes no long to download then > a properly trimmed bottom post...correct ? I don't know; I've never seen a properly trimmed top-post. In most cases, such a thing isn't possible. Unless your new post only makes one point, there's no way to tell which part of the quoted text corresponds to each part of the new text. > I agree posting like this is nice in some cases. One question I have > is why does netscape and others default to top posting when you > install it. The snarky answer is that Netscape and IE aren't newsreaders; they're browser/e-mail suites that have newsreaders slapped on as an afterthought. They're notorious for ignoring Internet standards whenever they feel like it. But really, even those programs don't "default to top posting". What they do is put your cursor at the top of the post, so you can start trimming down through the quoted text and inserting your comments. This makes more sense than putting the cursor at the bottom, which might encourage people to bottom-post but discourage them from trimming, so we'd get the worst of all worlds: lots of scrolling, poor context, and wasted bandwidth. Look, I'm trying not to beat this thing to death, but I think there's a worthwhile point to make here. Usenet is unique among all the Internet-based communications methods (mailing lists, web-based chat rooms and forums, IRC, messengers, etc) in that every Usenet post is automatically broadcast thousands of times and stored on thousands of news servers worldwide. This post will probably never even be read on many of those servers, but they'll still store a copy of it for a while. That's very different from a web-based forum where your post will be stored once and downloaded several times; or a mailing list where your post is only sent to people who signed up for that specific list. This amazing power to have your thoughts broadcast so widely at other people's expense comes with a natural responsibility to conserve those resources and post well. That's all. -- Aaron http://aaron.baugher.pike.il.us/off-topic/archives/000039.html From nobody Thu May 8 11:02:08 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Vegetables for acid reflux sufferers? References: <01c3156c$dd074bc0$LocalHost@default> Organization: ESC Date: 08 May 2003 11:02:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 24 "TomC" writes: > Gardening time is here, but this year we have a problem. The wife > has acid reflux disease. We planted tomatos, peppers, green beans, > lettuce, spinach, zuccini, and a few other things in the past. We > were really big into tomatos and peppers..would you believe :-( Can > anyone suggest different varieties that have a low acid content or > some ideas about vegetables to plant that would be more tolerable > for the wife. TIA. I used to have terrible acid reflux, bad enough to wake me up at nights. I completely eliminated it by eating a low-carb diet. It's like flipping a switch -- a couple days of low-carb and the burning was gone; a couple days of popcorn and ice cream and it's back. As long as I keep my diet free of high-carb items like sugar, bread, potatoes, and corn, I can eat all the vegetables I want, including acidic ones like tomatoes and peppers. Vegetables taste better and are more nutritious anyway. -- Aaron From nobody Sat May 10 18:55:39 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: burning leaves in garden References: <3ebd3bb1.6869977@news.bwsys.net> Organization: ESC Date: 10 May 2003 18:55:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 25 daveallyn@bwsys.net writes: > I have a lot of trees. Those trees have alot of leaves.. I am > fortunate to live in a town that not only allows, but encourages leaf > burning. My question is this.. does the ash left from the leaves > have any value in the garden? I know too many leaves can cause the > ground to become acidic, but what about the ash left from burning > them? Is it possible to put too much on? Yes, it's possible to put on too much ash. Wood ashes add potassium and raise the pH of soil, so I'm guessing leaf ashes would have a similar effect. I believe the recommended amount I've seen for wood ashes is 5-10 pounds per 100 square feet, but you should check that. You'd also want to till them into the soil a while before planting anything, as pure ashes would burn most plants or seedlings. My preference would be to compost the leaves, mulch with them, or just till them under as-is. They'll help to aerate the soil that way; they'll have at least as much fertilizer value; and it's just about impossible to use too many. -- Aaron From nobody Wed May 14 16:16:47 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: burning leaves in garden References: <3ebd3bb1.6869977@news.bwsys.net> <7218de3b.0305120616.140d147@posting.google.com> <3ec2866c.254962587@news.bwsys.net> Organization: ESC Date: 14 May 2003 16:16:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 33 "Dave Allyn" (Dave Allyn) writes: > I guess that is some of my confusion. I have always heard Leaves will > make your soil (or compost) acidic. I had thought that Lime was > alkiline and would therefore combat the acid from the leaves... then, > I had someone tell me that lime is neutral, and would remove acid or > alki. Now it sounds like lime is acid.... > what does lime do?? Lime and ashes both raise pH, reducing acidity. I think people get confused because lime the fruit is very acidic, while lime the crushed stone is just the opposite. It used to confuse me, anyway. Lime (calcium carbonate) also adds calcium, which could be beneficial to calcium rich plants like tomatoes and broccoli. Ashes add potassium and phosphorus, two other important nutrients. (Most commercial fertilizers are a mixture of nitrogen, potassium, and phosphorus.) So ideally, you'd want to apply both, or get a soil test and see which one would be more beneficial for your soil. Soil generally becomes more acidic over time, especially when nitrogen fertilizers, including manure and green mulch, are used. So you're much more likely to need to raise the pH of your soil than lower it. If you plan to grow acid-loving plants like potatoes, you may want to leave a section of the garden un-limed or -ashed, so those plants can have the acid soil they prefer. -- Aaron From nobody Sun May 18 06:33:26 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: sweetcorn spacing References: Organization: ESC Date: 18 May 2003 06:33:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 39 "Gyve Turquoise" writes: > Last year I grew a lot of sweetcorn plants together which I had > started at different times in modules. What I found was that for > some reason the plants all tried to produce kernels at the same > time. Presumably the pollen or something sets them all off. So the > less developed sweetcorn didn't have a good chance to make kernels > and in the worst case there were some very useless cobs with only > one or two seeds on them. I don't think an early dusting of pollen would have any effect until the silks are ready for it. It sounds like what happened is that since you had different varieties mixed together, some plants weren't able to get pollen when their ears developed to that point. In other words, a stalk of variety A didn't get any pollen when it wanted it, because it was surrounded by stalks of varieties B, C, and D which kept the pollen from other A stalks from getting that far. > This year I'm going to grow different varieties for different > ripening times again. My question is how far do I need to separate > the corn plantings of different things to get them not to interfere > with each other's development like this. Any suggestions? The last sweet corn I planted said either 250 feet or yards; I forget which. Not many gardeners have that much space, so you just have to do what you can. If you have two varieties that are likely to pollinate at the same time, plant them at opposite ends of your garden and hope it's not real windy when they pollinate. If you have varieties with very different pollination times, you can plant them close together and not have to worry about cross-pollination. Make sure to plant your corn in sections at least four rows wide. That'll ensure good pollination even if the breeze happens to be perpendicular to the row. -- Aaron From nobody Mon May 19 06:55:26 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Mantis tiller References: Organization: ESC Date: 19 May 2003 06:55:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 37 zxcvbob writes: > It can go about a foot deep if you go over it a couple of times. If > you can get it started. I'm trying to decide whether to order a new > carburator for mine, or just throw it away. Seriously; throw it > away. Sounds familiar. Mine started and ran fine the first year, but then I didn't winterize it properly, and it got gummed up with bad gas the next spring. Completely my fault, of course. I tinkered with it a little, got nowhere, and ended up just storing it for a few years. This year I decided to get it running. I replaced the fuel filter, put in good new gas with the proper oil mix (Mantis brand oil, even), completely dismantled and cleaned the carb (it had deposits from bad gas in the bottom), and cleaned the spark plug. Two-stroke engines aren't very complicated; so that's really everything that can be done. It starts and idles poorly, and then dies as soon as I accelerate. Fiddling with the mixture adjustment needles doesn't seem to help. The only thing I haven't replaced yet is the bubble, which cracked and fell apart after a few years. Maybe that's keeping it from getting enough gas somehow. (Whoever invented the Bubble should be shot, by the way.) Can anyone tell me which adjustment needle is idle and which is high-throttle? Or do those needles perform a different function on this carb? I don't seem to have my owner's manual anymore. Anyway, if you can keep it running, it does a very nice job of tilling clean soil. Tall grass and weeds wind up badly, so mow those off close to the ground and rake them away, if possible. -- Aaron From nobody Thu May 22 07:00:35 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: hay mulch References: <3ecc02c4$0$1028$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <20030521233922.00970.00000105@mb-m18.news.cs.com> Organization: ESC Date: 22 May 2003 07:00:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 30 frankhartx@cs.com (Frankhartx) writes: > Hay is a field crop(wheat, rye oats etc)that has been harvested > whole--thus it will containm seed heads. The ideal time to cut hay is before it's gone to seed, since that's when it has the highest food value. Weather and time constraints don't always allow that, though. Weeds growing in the hayfield may also have gone to seed by cutting time. So very high quality hay may have very few seeds, while a lower-quality hay could have a lot of them. > Straw is the remaining part of a fields crop after the seed heads > have been harvested and thus will contain few if any seeds Again, it depends on how many weeds are growing among the dead stalks that become straw. It also depends on how good a job the combine does of removing all the grain from the heads. In general, you will find fewer seeds in straw than in hay, but there are several other differences to consider when deciding which to use. (Not least of which might be availability in your area.) Here's my long explanation of the two from sometime last year: -- Aaron From nobody Sun May 25 06:30:28 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: grass clipping mulch References: Organization: ESC Date: 25 May 2003 06:30:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 30 glenna@pmug.org (Glenna Rose) writes: > My tomatoes, etc., have been fantastic, and I attribute it partially > to the grass clipping mulch placed at planting and for a while > after. The grass clippings keep the soil warm while decomposing so > you have the advantage of warm soil as well as moisture retention. I think people worry too much about the water-shedding qualities of thick mulch. Yes, in a hard rain, the water won't all soak though. But the mulch also prevents evaporation, so it's hard to say which effect is stronger. I know that I've never pulled back several inches of compacted grass clippings and found dry soil underneath. It's always moist or even muddy. > The added bonus is weed control; by the time the surround soil warms > enough for the weed seeds to grow, the tomato plant has reached a > height that it shades the area which discourages weed growth. With > a good supply of grass clippings around the veggie plants, the > plants grow better and weed growth is at a minimum . . . works for > me, your mileage may vary. All good reasons. My goal is to have my entire garden mulched this year, and a couple more lawn-mowings should do it. I've also got straw which I'm going to spread on top of the grass mulch around vining plants like tomatoes and melons, to keep their fruit dry. -- Aaron From nobody Tue May 27 17:13:14 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible,rec.gardens Subject: Re: a guidfe to what plants look like when young -or- what the hell is that? References: Organization: ESC Date: 27 May 2003 17:13:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 31 DigitalVinyl writes: > My in the groud garden has various sprouts now. However I've become > suspicious that soe of the sprouts that I thought were from my seed > may not be. > Other than long term experience--how the hell do you tell these > little guys apart? It would be great if a book showed you the > seedling stage as well as the full grown. Let them grow a few more leaves, and they'll start to look different. The first 2-4 leaves of most plants look a lot alike. Let them grow for a week or two, and they should gain definition and start to look more like their full-sized counterparts in the seed catalog pictures. Partly it's just experience, though. With a few years under your belt, you'll be able to recognize your common weeds more quickly. > Do carrot seedlings have long thin spikey leaves, or a 2 little/2 > big leafs config (like radishes)? I've got both type coming up where > I planted carrots. Carrots stand out because they have thin, grassy leaves at first, unlike the wide leaves most plants start with. A carrot's later leaves will start to look 'carroty', so then you can distinguish them from any grass that might be coming up. -- Aaron From nobody Wed May 28 08:51:20 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible,rec.gardens Subject: Re: a guidfe to what plants look like when young -or- what the hell is that? References: <0757dvgaf2d2io1cc49a8etjro8n1qvell@4ax.com> <74e7dvchl43rf152hjos6fr63as6639mlm@4ax.com> Organization: ESC Date: 28 May 2003 08:51:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 27 Pat Meadows writes: > Unfortunately, we haven't room for corn - I've never grown corn, so > I don't know how I would grow it. It's a pretty easy one. We just dig holes about a foot apart (in rows far enough apart to walk between) and drop three seeds in each one. The only hard part about growing corn around here is keeping the coons out of it. To save space, we sometimes drop a bean seed (usually a shelling variety) in each hole with the corn. The beans seem to like the shade from the corn, and the corn will be gone by the time the beans are ready to harvest. This year I used a dry bean variety that's "semi-climbing." I didn't want to waste fence space if it didn't really climb much, but if it does want to climb, it can climb the corn. Some people also plant squash, pumpkins, or other late-season vining plants alongside their corn, and let them vine through the corn patch. Again, the corn will be harvested before those later crops take over the space. -- Aaron From nobody Fri May 30 06:10:04 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: covering potatoes References: <20030529122739.23187.00000810@mb-m13.aol.com> <5_ydnbjPbsYgtkqjXTWcoQ@comcast.com> Organization: ESC Date: 30 May 2003 06:10:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 14 kiewicz@comcast.net (Pat Kiewicz) writes: > I cover little by little, and never completely. You've got to leave > *some* of the leaves exposed to the sun. No, you can cover potatoes completely and they'll keep coming up. Of course, at some point you have to stop and let them make potatoes. I think, although I've never tried re-covering them all season. It'd make for a huge hill of dirt. -- Aaron From nobody Sun Jun 1 18:41:42 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: potatoes dying References: Organization: ESC Date: 01 Jun 2003 18:41:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 15 Frank Thompson writes: > most of my potatoes are dead or are dying...they wilt & > ddie...pulled them up to examine & at base of stem appears that some > pest has gotten inside the stem & eaten it away...did not see > anything live...any suggestions as to what it might be? Could be European Corn Borer. It wiped out most of our potato crop last year, and the symptoms sound just like it. If you do a web search, I'm sure you can find pictures of it to compare. -- Aaron From nobody Mon Jun 2 09:11:58 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible,rec.gardens Subject: Re: garden police gone wild? References: <3ed74a8a.54615305@news.earthlink.net> <3ede6553.1741459@news-server.wi.rr.com> <3ed8593d.1005806@news.shout.net> <3ed8a2b0.82730428@news.earthlink.net> <8fehdv87foq3e8tjaabg504t5oo2el7qvr@4ax.com> <3ed97932.3111675@news.bwsys.net> <3EDA00A6.FCB81047@hal-pc.org> Organization: ESC Date: 02 Jun 2003 09:11:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 22 animaux writes: > Not only did he threaten people, his 11 year old daughter said > something which put red flags up on the whole block. She asked > another little girl if she ever had sex, or wanted to have sex. > These are 11 year old girls. You realize, of course, that some schools start sex education in kindergarten nowadays. That may not be the case in your area, but it's drastically jumping to conclusions to think an 11-year-old got such curiosity at home, no matter how weird her family is otherwise. They're getting bombarded with it from all sides. Come to think of it, when I was 11 years old, a school friend used to pass around his mom's trashy romance novels -- the kind with fully descriptive sex, not the tamer ones that stop at the bedroom door. Luckily for their morals, most of the kids probably couldn't read yet. -- Aaron From nobody Tue Jun 3 16:19:10 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: seed potato sprouting References: Organization: ESC Date: 03 Jun 2003 16:19:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 31 DigitalVinyl writes: > I tried one limited potato plant. Over a week ago I noticed a bud of > leaf-like things right at the dirtline. It was dark like the dirt > and it might have been there for a few days without me spotting > it. It was the potato's first top growth. Well over a week later it > is still there. No growth no movment no change of color. I think it > died. Since you mention later that the weather's been cool and wet, it could have rotted before it got growing well. Hard to say. > Re-reading one of the books I didn't let the sprout grow to the > recommended 1 inch long before planting. I've never heard that before. We routinely plant potatoes with no measurable sprouts -- just eyes. > I have other seed potatoes some with almost an inch of psrout, some > have multiple spruots in a little cluster. SOme are multi-colored > purples and tiny tinges of green... are they supposed to look like > that? (I remember green potatoes being poisonous. ) Yeah, they can look pretty funny. You don't have to worry about the green since you won't be eating it. That usually means they've been exposed to sunlight, but it shouldn't hurt them for planting. -- Aaron From nobody Wed Jun 4 14:42:07 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: HELP--Late start on garden! References: <20030604131940.04183.00000018@mb-m06.aol.com> Organization: ESC Date: 04 Jun 2003 14:42:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 45 johndkestell@aol.com (JohnDKestell) writes: > Here's what I did to "shock" the soil into condition (it was > actually pretty good, nice and dark and crumbly, pH about 6.7-6.9). > I tilled it to about 10", raked off as much "crap" as I could, > weeds, roots, junk...... Then I covered it with about an inch of > about 4 year old wood chips (stored outside, well rotted and aged), > and tilled again to a foot deep. I raked again (much less garbage > this time), then covered it with some cattle bedding from the stock > yard (it was steaming when I cut into it--a little too hot from > bacteria? Possibly, but since you're diluting it into 10 inches of soil, I doubt you'll have any trouble. > still, it seemed to be "working" really well--you can't really tell > where the manure stops and the sawdust and straw begins) and a good > sprinkling of blood and bone meal. It rained for about 2 days. > When it dried enough (just this morning) I tilled it and raked > everything nice and smooth. It looks good to me, but it's my first > shot at starting a garden from basically, a lawn. (I inherited my > last, and really my first garden from the previous tenant). > Anyways, the rain seemed to have helped in getting the whole deal > mixed in completely. I can't discern the stuff I added from the > soil. NIce and crumbly. Sounds like you're doing a great job. I've started a few gardens from scratch, and I normally just till under what's there, mulch quite a bit, and see how things do the first year before adding much else. > also, what is a good late summer/fall idea to help seriously build > up some great soil for next year? Is it ok to just add my compost, > and then maybe a serious layer of manure/bedding, and let it break > down over the winter? Should I turn it under, or wait until spring > for that? One possibility, especially if your soil can use nitrogen, is to plant a winter cover crop like winter rye, and then till that under in the spring. That'll fix nitrogen to the soil as it grows, add green stuff when you till it in, and look nicer than a bare spot over the winter. -- Aaron From nobody Tue Jun 10 07:11:30 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Corn in Virginia is a disaster References: Organization: ESC Date: 10 Jun 2003 07:11:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 19 "istartedi" writes: > This is my first year growing sweet corn in Virginia, and it's a > disaster. Of 32 once promising plants, a little more than half > looks like they will make it. Some got blown over by wind that > reminded me more of October than May. Others are now falling prey > to some mysterious critter that ignores tall weeds sprouting in > other parts of the yard, and vindictively bites cornstalks off at > the base. Sounds like cutworm. Dig down around a stalk that's just been cut off, or the next one in the row, and you may find it. A ring of ashes around each stalk should help deter them. It doesn't take corn long to get too large for the cutworm to attack. -- Aaron From nobody Wed Jun 25 07:03:22 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: this rascal ruined my garden! References: <1646bc4908fa78d512dd416d0babe3c9@free.teranews.com> Organization: ESC Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 07:03:22 -0500 berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 24 "Seeker" writes: > Someone else as in deer? Maybe otters? Relocating to a > non-populated area is the obvious choice. It leads to the same end > result with no unnecessary violence towards the animal. Most people don't live anywhere near a non-populated area large enough to relocate a raccoon without giving it to someone else. I live in a rural area with only 3 other houses within site of my place, and there's nowhere in this county I could dump a coon where it wouldn't be within easy range of another person's garden or chickens. I have no problems with shooting them (better that than spreading disease and passing the buck by relocation) but that may not help your garden much. Other coons will soon move into the vacated territory, so unless you're prepared to be a vigilant hunter all season, you may have to resort to electric fence or dogs. I've heard of people around here putting out poison and killing dozens, or even hundreds, of coons within a matter of days. They cover a lot of territory. -- Aaron From nobody Wed Jun 25 07:09:49 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: this rascal ruined my garden! References: Organization: ESC Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 07:09:48 -0500 berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 24 "B. Joshua Rosen" writes: > Is there any particular reason to relocate a possum or a mouse? > Raccoons will destroy a garden, a mouse certainly won't and I don't > think a possum will either. Trying to relocate mice is a hopeless > task anyway, they reproduce in the thousands. Possums also have a > very high reproduction rate, much higher than you would expect for > an animal that size. Mice spread disease and are just generally filthy if they get into your house. They should be relocated into the belly of a cat. Possums won't bother a garden much except for ripe corn, and even then not as voraciously as coons. But they'll kill chickens and other fowl when they get a chance, and they're vicious critters when cornered. A dog or small child that corners one could be in for a nasty time. If I caught one in a trap, I certainly wouldn't dump it on someone else, and I'd make sure it wasn't in any shape to bite me when I got close enough to open the trap. -- Aaron From nobody Wed Jun 25 07:16:51 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: another newbie question--canteloupe this time! References: <20030622224820.20154.00001010@mb-m02.aol.com> <7epefv0v6c97jfv0ltcgpech0f8al92vpa@4ax.com> Organization: ESC Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 07:16:51 -0500 berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 28 Frogleg writes: > Amen. Unless we grew up with gardening parents and neighbors, we all > started as newbies. And are still learning. The most successful pea > crop I ever had was from tossing spent vines on the compost pile. > Plants sprouted in the fall, paused during the winter, and went > absolutely mad the next spring. No trellis or rows or anything -- > they just climbed (clomb?) on anything nearby. And every day for a > month, I harvested a cup of edible-pod peas. I can hardly suggest > that as the ideal method for growing sugar snaps, but it *does* > point to the opportunistic habits of plants. Every year my mom seems to have something come up volunteer and just go nuts. This year it was radishes. She picked hundreds of them from an area where last year's had gone to seed, and they were some of the best, mildest radishes I've ever had. Another year it was tiny tomatoes, and another year, lima beans. It seems like the season, temperature, and moisture will come together just perfectly for a certain seed, and suddenly nothing can stop it. We're also seeing that here in the fields this year with wild mustard. Everywhere I go, I see yellow blooms all over hay fields and the borders of grain fields. -- Aaron From nobody Wed Jun 25 07:22:30 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: snow peas References: Organization: ESC Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 07:22:30 -0500 berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 24 zxcvbob writes: > I'm growing snow peas this year for the first time. I think the > variety is Oregon Early Giant, or something like that. When do I > pick them? As soon as the pods are almost 3 inches long, or do I > let them fill out just a little -- where I can see the immature peas > bulging the pods? Thanks. I'm growing Goliath peas this year. They're supposed to be an either-or -- eat them as snow peas or shell them out. One catalog said to pick them flat, and another said to let them fill out first, so I tried the latter. Way too stringy. I even pulled as many strings as possible off the second batch, but it wasn't enough. So I'd say you'd better pick them before the peas start to bulge, although you could leave a few to get fuller and see how they do. These Goliaths grew very nicely and are producing well, but I think I'll use them for shell peas next year and grow some true snow peas for eating whole. -- Aaron From nobody Thu Jun 26 06:23:10 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Another garden bandit bagged! References: <3ef9259a.45550350@news.ptd.net> <7scKa.20193$0v4.1644146@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> Organization: ESC Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 06:23:10 -0500 berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 22 "Charles P" writes: > I don't get it. How can they navigate? I've been lost > more than once in the woods and had to laboriously > figure things out with topo maps and a compass, > and I consider myself a hell of a lot smarter than > a racoon, and with an education. The coon never even > made it to kindergarten. It's instinctive. Ducks don't have to be taught to swim, either. They just do it. > Beats me how they can do that, but I'm releasing my coons 15 > miles away and across the river. If you've got good coon habitat, neighboring ones will move in and take over his territory soon. Hope you like giving them rides. -- Aaron From nobody Fri Jun 27 09:30:02 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Yellow wax beans References: Organization: ESC Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 09:30:02 -0500 Message-ID: <864r2bpp91.fsf@cail.baugher.pike.il.us> berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 22 Pat Meadows writes: > Then I put them in a colander and shake them to drain out > most of the water (but I certainly don't dry them > thoroughly). Then I put them into freezer bags, label, and > put into the freezer. One thing I'll do when I freeze vegetables is spread them out on cookie sheets when I first put them in the freezer, and once they've frozen, transfer them into freezer bags or containers. That way the bag won't be frozen into on big lump, so I can use as much of it as I want. Sometimes, rather than spread them out, I'll put them in a plastic tub in the freezer, and stir them up every free hours until they're frozen. Then transfer them into big freezer bags or cartons from which I can dip out what I need for a meal. -- Aaron From nobody Fri Jun 27 09:31:17 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Yellow wax beans References: Organization: ESC Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 09:31:17 -0500 Message-ID: <86znk3oami.fsf@cail.baugher.pike.il.us> berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 15 Larry Blanchard writes: > Or plant a pole variety like Marvel of Venice. Plant it once and it > bears all season if you keep it picked. When you get tired of > eating/canning/freezing wax beans just quit picking :-). How are those for stringiness? Our catalogs only have one yellow pole variety, and it's a Kentucky Wonder type that's pretty stringy. I'd love to find a yellow pole bean that makes as good a bean as the bush varieties. -- Aaron From nobody Fri Jun 27 09:35:12 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Does five gallon container contain five gallons? References: <3EFB8CE2.8080306@thegrid.net> Organization: ESC Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 09:35:12 -0500 Message-ID: <86vfuroafz.fsf@cail.baugher.pike.il.us> berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 11 "Lorenzo L. Love" writes: > That's about right. A gallon pot normally holds about 3/4 > gallon. Don't try to make sense of it. It's probably a full gallon if you heap it up. -- Aaron From nobody Sat Jun 28 01:26:05 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Yellowing and Slow Growing Pepper Plants References: Organization: ESC Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 01:26:05 -0500 Message-ID: <86of0in2f6.fsf@cail.baugher.pike.il.us> berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 28 "Rade Savija" writes: > My mother used fresh manure in the past along with Miracle grow and > we never had this slow growth and yellowing in the past so I am > thinking that maybe it was the sawdust that caused the problem by > maybe making the soil more acidic? It would make the soil more acid. Hard to say whether that's the problem, though. > It has been an unusually cold June so far in Milwaukee, Wisconsin > and that may be a contributing factor also. Yes, peppers like it hot. > Is there any way too check to see if the soil is too acidic? Could > my mother have put in an overdose of Miracle Grow? Possibly. Peppers don't need much beyond lots of long, sunny days. I can imagine them being burned by too-heavy use of chemical fertilizer. Call your county extension office and ask them how to get a soil test done. Usually it costs a few dollars, and it'll tell you your Ph and other things about your soil content. -- Aaron From nobody Tue Jul 1 16:28:35 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Beginner garden, Zone 8a, need tips References: <16b0ecc6.0307010917.7c2741c@posting.google.com> Organization: ESC Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 16:28:33 -0500 Message-ID: <863chqj5ry.fsf@cail.baugher.pike.il.us> berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 51 imanidiot111@hotmail.com (Not Much) writes: > Another issue: being by myself, I always have an issue with food > going bad because i can't use it in time. This is especially true > with veggies. Any tips on harvesting or storing so i won't be > wasting too much? You basically have three choices for long-term storage: freezing, canning, or drying (and some root crops like potatoes can just be kept in the basement for a while). Vegetables vary in how well each method works. A good book for explaining all the methods, and telling you which ones work best for each vegetable, is _Stocking Up_ from Rodale Press. As far as frugality goes, drying is probably the cheapest. You can get a dehydrator for $20 or less (or just use your oven), and then all you need are some jars or tins to put the dried food in and a dark place to keep them. Canning would be the next cheapest; you need a pressure canner, jars, lids, and some know-how. Freezing is the most expensive, since you'll need a freezer and freezer bags or containers, but you may be able to pick up a cheap freezer at an auction or estate sale. > And, can you staggar plant veggies in a way such that you are > always harvesting something? Definitely. I've been picking turnips, lettuce (several kinds), swiss chard, and peas for over a month now. It got too hot and dry for radishes, and the peas will probably be done for in a couple weeks, but beans and other things will be coming on by then, and I'll have peas again in the fall. There aren't many individual varieties that will bear all season, but you can definitely be picking something every day all season. In fact, since some plants take longer to mature than others, and different plants like different weather, it mostly just works out that way. > Someone point me in the right direction. So far, i've learned about > preparing raised beds and some pointers on square foot gardening and > soil prep, but I'm still lost on what to plant, when to plant, and > when to harvest. Raised beds might not be the most 'frugal' way to go, but I'll let others with experience at that chime in here. If you have to purchase soil and lumber or other edging for your beds, you'll surely spend more than someone who just works up a plot of ground. But you might be ahead in the long run, if you never have to buy/rent a tiller. -- Aaron From nobody Wed Jul 2 09:05:12 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Geez! Tomato Hornworms References: Organization: ESC Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 09:05:12 -0500 Message-ID: <867k71gh2f.fsf@cail.baugher.pike.il.us> berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 30 "Lisa" writes: > Hey all -- was gone for the weekend and went to take a look at the > garden yesterday (which up until this weekend was doing A-OK). > Well, my beautiful tomato plants were all branches and limbs. No > leaves. No tomatoes. Got to looking closely to see what the heck > happened to my plants and there were horrible green horned > caterpillars. Looked them up and discovered they were hornworms. > Some of the biggest, fattest, ugliest caterpillars I have ever seen. > Peeled off and destroyed as many as we could find and then sprayed > herbicidal soap on what was left. Are my plants ruined? Am I done > for the season? Or will they come back and produce? It's hard to say. The branches that were eaten back probably won't grow again, but tomato plants usually have a lot more foliage than they need, especially if you don't prune them like some people do. I've seen some very shorn tomato plants produce quite a few tomatoes. The best defense against tomato worms is to check your plants every day. The worms themselves can be hard to spot, but the damage usually stands out quickly. Also, if you happen to see a worm with a bunch of white things sticking out from his body, those are the eggs of some sort of wasp. Don't kill that worm; the eggs will hatch soon and the wasp larvae will eat the worm, which is the sort of thing you want to encourage. -- Aaron From nobody Tue Jul 15 08:26:35 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: corn silks/ear shoots References: Organization: ESC Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:26:35 -0500 Message-ID: <86brvvj4z8.fsf@cail.baugher.pike.il.us> berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 25 DigitalVinyl writes: > The thing I'm missing is the silks or "ear shoots" I don't see > anything but the tassels. Anyone know of a picture of what I'm > looking for? I've read the pollen has to fall on the ear shoot and > silks but I'm not seeing anything. They probably just haven't gotten that far yet. You'll normally see tassels before ears, but they won't start dropping pollen right away. As the ear grows, it'll be all cob, and it'll gradually start growing silks out the end that are a whitish/clear color. I believe each silk runs down to a different point on the cob where one kernel will grow. As the silks get pollinated, the kernels begin to grow, and the silks turn dark. Once that happens, you can carefully peel the husk back from an ear to see if it's ready. If it's not ready, try to put the husk back in place as well as possible, to keep bugs out. One test for readiness is to puncture a kernel with a fingernail. If it squirts out milk, it's ready. If the kernels are starting to dent on top, it's past ready and getting tough. -- Aaron From nobody Tue Jul 15 08:29:25 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Purple Pole Beans? References: <20030714195236.18633.00000418@mb-m20.aol.com> Organization: ESC Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:29:25 -0500 Message-ID: <867k6jj4ui.fsf@cail.baugher.pike.il.us> berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 16 Phaedrine Stonebridge writes: > You're right! I yanked out the VBSC catalogue and it was kinda > tucked in between the cowpeas and bush beans. And they are only 65 > days so I am going to order some. :) Thanks! They also have the > streaked "Rattlesnake" variety which is very tasty too. :) Order early. We've been ordering from Vermont Bean for several years, and they've been very slow the last two years. It seemed like they shipped things out this year based on who had called to complain lately. Luckily I had leftover seed from last year for most things. -- Aaron From nobody Tue Jul 15 18:18:30 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Purple Pole Beans? References: <20030714195236.18633.00000418@mb-m20.aol.com> <867k6jj4ui.fsf@cail.baugher.pike.il.us> Organization: ESC Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:18:30 -0500 Message-ID: <86vfu3e5vd.fsf@cail.baugher.pike.il.us> berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 31 Phaedrine Stonebridge writes: > Our order this year was staggered in 5-6 seperate mailings from > them! And it was not a large order as we obtained most of our seeds > from other sources. That happened to us last year, when we received about six different shipments. They said the reason for the delays was a fire in a warehouse somewhere that destroyed a lot of seed. Shipping costs must have killed them, which is probably why this year it took forever for us to get our seeds, but they did come in one package. > OTOH, they sent us a large quantity of free peas described only as > "experimental". LOL. I wish they'd tell what the experimentals are, so if they do well, you can look for them next year. We always order enough to get the free peas, beans, and corn. > I hope they get over their problems as they have always been one of > my favorite suppliers. Same here, but we're at least checking out some other catalogs before next year. As I understand it, Vermont Bean has been involved in a merger/buy-out with Jung's and Shumway's sometime in the last few years, and I wonder if business is getting lost in the shuffle. -- Aaron From nobody Wed Jul 16 07:17:00 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Are my Potatoes Mush? References: <20030716073343.09680.00000001@mb-m11.aol.com> Organization: ESC Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:17:00 -0500 Message-ID: <86el0qd5tv.fsf@cail.baugher.pike.il.us> berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 33 kkfromnj@aol.comcast.net (KK from NJ) writes: > This is my first year growing potatoes. I built a > 2 1/2 ft x 6 ft x 3 ft high frame covered > by 1/2 wire mesh. I'm having trouble picturing this. I think you mean you built a box to hold the straw, right? > I mulched with straw as they > grew. Today I took a peek down into the straw > and found a grayish blackish layer of what I can > only describe as some type of mold :( If the plants are/were growing, I suspect they should have good potatoes under them. Sometimes the original piece of potato will rot away after the plant gets started, especially if it was large, so maybe you found that. Have the plants died yet? That's when they're ready to harvest. > I started these after the early season rains > the plagued the Northeast. > Something tells me this is not good. Extra moisture (or very hot, dry conditions) can certainly cause potato sets to rot, but in that case, they don't make plants. I'd remain cautiously optimistic until you actually try to harvest them and see what's there. -- Aaron From nobody Wed Jul 16 14:17:25 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Are my Potatoes Mush? References: <86el0qd5tv.fsf@cail.baugher.pike.il.us> <20030716093308.18739.00000002@mb-m18.aol.com> Organization: ESC Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:17:25 -0500 Message-ID: <86wuei9t8a.fsf@cail.baugher.pike.il.us> berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 12 kkfromnj@aol.comcast.net (KK from NJ) writes: > Sorry I wasn't clear. The mold is in the straw. Its full of it :( I guess I'd just wait and see. Your plants look very healthy, and I'm not sure if it's possible to have big healthy plants if something's going wrong beneath the surface. -- Aaron From nobody Thu Jul 17 07:24:06 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Are my Potatoes Mush? References: <86el0qd5tv.fsf@cail.baugher.pike.il.us> <20030716093308.18739.00000002@mb-m18.aol.com> Organization: ESC Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:24:06 -0500 Message-ID: <861xwp8hp5.fsf@cail.baugher.pike.il.us> berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 16 kiewicz@comcast.net (Pat Kiewicz) writes: >>http://members.aol.com/kkfromnj/cage.jpg/ >> >>and if you can see it, the mold >>http://members.aol.com/kkfromnj/mold.jpg/ > I couldn't see the pictures (pages of weird characters in the > browsers I use), Remove the trailing slash, and they should display okay. -- Aaron From nobody Thu Jul 24 07:20:15 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Corn patch made into crop circles References: <69fc17fb.0307231451.2e7b4bdc@posting.google.com> Organization: ESC Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:20:15 -0500 Message-ID: <86u19cp14w.fsf@cail.baugher.pike.il.us> berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 39 christ@taconic.net (Chris) writes: > What gives? Is it something about the closeness of planting? (The > stalks bent at the soil, the plant did stay in the ground.) Possibly. If your plants were crowded enough that they didn't develop as much root system as they normally would, that wouldn't help. But this is just a typical problem with corn, so you may not have done anything wrong. Corn just doesn't develop a very strong root system below the soil, and it presents a big target for wind. > Or the smallish patch didn't afford as much protection to the > interior as a huge planting? Probably, although I've seen plenty of large fields where corn around the edges was standing tall after a storm and large patches in the middle of the field were flattened. > What do I do now? So far, I've done nothing and the stalks are > still green and don't seem too dead. If the ground is very wet, you may be able to stand it back up, as someone else suggested. It may stand back up somewhat on it's own, too. If you can't stand it back up without breaking the stalks, it will probably grow okay where it is, as long as the ears aren't actually touching the ground, but it'd be better for pollination to stand it up if possible. > And finally, how do I prevent this in the future? There's not much you can do, short of building a windbreak of some sort around your corn. Farmers buy crop insurance to cover it, and do their best to harvest it anyway, even if it means using special equipment to pull the downed stalks into the combine. -- Aaron From nobody Thu Jul 24 17:08:01 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Best cuke for flesh/seed ratio? Organization: ESC Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:08:01 -0500 Message-ID: <86smovmvcu.fsf@cail.baugher.pike.il.us> berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 17 I'm growing Little Leaf this year, and the plants are healthy and the cukes look great, but as soon as they get any size at all, they're full of seeds. I expect that when they get to full size (say 6" long and 2" across), but even at one inch diameter these seem to be at least 3/4 seeds. I don't think I should have to pick them the size of baby carrots just to avoid seeds. Anyone want to suggest a variety that has a high flesh/seed ratio? I'd like something firm for pickling. That's why I don't care for all the weak, seedy center portion in the first place; it just doesn't make the pickles crunchy like they should be. Thanks, -- Aaron From nobody Fri Jul 25 07:18:54 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Best cuke for flesh/seed ratio? References: <86smovmvcu.fsf@cail.baugher.pike.il.us> Organization: ESC Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 07:18:53 -0500 Message-ID: <86d6fylryq.fsf@cail.baugher.pike.il.us> berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 13 "Penny Morgan" writes: > I find that "Straight Eight" by Burpee is a very blocky, medium > sized cucumber with small seeds and is very crunchy. I have used > them several times in pickle recipes with great success. I also > hate seedy cucumbers. Thanks; I'll look that one up for next year. -- Aaron From nobody Fri Jul 25 07:21:35 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Summer Lettuce crop References: Organization: ESC Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 07:21:34 -0500 Message-ID: <868yqmlru9.fsf@cail.baugher.pike.il.us> berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 20 "harold steig" writes: > I had great luck with lettuce this spring growing black seeded > simpson and salad bowl. Now that the rest of the salad vegges are > getting ripe my lettuce is about done. I live in central WI and we > do get warm days 85 to 95 with night time temps in the 60's > Do you think i can get another batch of simpson to grow this year ? > I could water daily and put a cover over it about 12 inches above > ground to shade it from the sun. I'm going to plant several kinds of lettuce in about a week, here in central Illinois. I think you'd get a crop if you planted now, as long as you don't get an unusually early frost. Someone actually in your area might know for sure. -- Aaron From nobody Thu Jul 31 18:46:18 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: The corn saga References: <3F291B24.6821977D@wku.edu> Organization: ESC Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:46:18 -0500 Message-ID: <86brvaz2d1.fsf@cail.baugher.pike.il.us> berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 22 Andrew McMichael writes: > Finally, last night I caught sight of the creature doing it--my > next-door-neighbor's very old, nearly broken-down dog. Lucky I > spotted him, because I was on the verge of "painting" the remaining > half-dozen or so ears with rat poison. This damn dog (which in the > past has turned over our garbage, etc.) has systematically stripped > almost every single ear of corn from my plot. Did you actually see the dog pulling down ears and eating them? I suppose that's possible, but this sounds like classic coon damage. I'm wondering if the dog was after racoon spoor. Either way, electric fence is probably the answer. As someone else said, if you have much wildlife in your area at all, sweet corn is a major target for many different critters, including some, like coons, that can climb just about anything. -- Aaron From nobody Mon Aug 4 17:07:29 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Compost ingredients? References: <3F2800E0.9B8B759A@wku.edu> <1059609571.65847@axilla.wwnet.net> <4myXa.34838$Ne.31187@fed1read03> <07dtiv0r8njihd0v9kfcvtk00uvh9veiho@4ax.com> Organization: ESC Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 17:07:27 -0500 Message-ID: <86brv5hyao.fsf@cail.baugher.pike.il.us> berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 44 Pat Meadows writes: > [1] From Merriam Webster online (for the definition of a > vegetarian they say 'one who practices vegetarianism'): > : the theory or practice of living on a diet made up of > vegetables , fruits, grains, nuts, and sometimes eggs or > dairy products This definition is at least consistent: no food which required an animal to die. Eggs sold for eating are normally unfertilized, so they were never alive. Of course, chickens and cows on large farms don't live very long and are sent to slaughter as soon as their productivity drops, but that's not as direct. I knew a woman who only ate chicken and fish because she saw a TV show once about the conditions that certain milk-fed veal are raised in. Never mind that most carnivores go their whole lives without ever eating veal -- I can't remember the last time I saw it at my grocer's, and I couldn't afford it if I did -- she swore off all eating of hairy animals. Good thing she didn't see a show about how chickens are usually raised; their conditions are much nastier than that of most cattle or hogs. I eat as much meat as possible myself, but almost all of it comes from my parents' farm, and is butchered either by us or a local small butcher. Some of the stuff I've seen about the way livestock are raised on large corporate farms, and then treated in large slaughterhouses, would nearly make me swear off meat if I had to buy it all from who-knows-where. > Main Entry: veg·an > : a strict vegetarian who consumes no animal food or dairy > products; also : one who abstains from using animal products > (as leather) This one's consistent too, but I'd think it'd be awfully expensive to get a balanced diet with enough protein. -- Aaron From nobody Mon Aug 4 17:10:54 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Compost ingredients? References: <3F2800E0.9B8B759A@wku.edu> <3F2A7739.D167B42B@wku.edu> <1059963343.775473@axilla.wwnet.net> <9oyXa.34839$Ne.23040@fed1read03> Organization: ESC Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 17:10:54 -0500 Message-ID: <867k5thy4x.fsf@cail.baugher.pike.il.us> berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 15 writes: > Why do they use such good wood for a pallet? I always figured they > were throw-away wood. Now I know why they are so @)#(! heavy. Around here most pallets are made from junk trees, like cottonwood. If someone's making pallets out of oak, they must be using the scraps that weren't good enough for anything else, or logs that were too crooked to make a long enough board. A good oak log is worth way too much as quality lumber to be using it for pallets. -- Aaron From nobody Mon Aug 11 09:01:36 2003 Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible Subject: Re: Two tomato problems and stegosaurus worm...friend or foe? References: Organization: ESC berkeley-unix) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 09:01:35 -0500 Message-ID: <86d6fcpa2o.fsf@cail.baugher.pike.il.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 20 DigitalVinyl writes: > Okay I recall someone mentioning a tomato horn worm so that was my > first guess. > Interestingly enough the stegosaurus spikes are wasp eggs. The page > I found recommends leaving the infected worm alone so the wasps will > hatch and kill more. > Is that what others do? Leave them to produce wasps/insects? That's what I did last year, and this year I haven't had a single hornworm. Can't say for sure that's the reason, but maybe the wasps wiped them out in the neighborhood. I've never had a year go by without finding hornworms before. -- Aaron