From nobody Thu Jul 25 21:20:27 2002 Newsgroups: alt.tv.star-trek.enterprise,alt.tv.star-trek.next-gen,alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: Okay, Maybe This Is Dumb... References: Date: 25 Jul 2002 21:20:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 40 "Nelz" writes: > ...but why does everyone think "Generations" is so bad. I enjoy it > every time I watch it, despite the groaners in there and the fact > Kirk is in it. I liked it fine -- certainly more than any of the TOS movies. As for Kirk's appearance, it's easy to forget now how uptight people were about the transition from old crew to new. I remember interviews with some of the TOS crew, who felt pushed out, saying they felt they still had movies in them. Some sort of homage had to be shown to TOS in the first TNG movie, and having Kirk come back to save the day wasn't a bad compromise. ************ SPOILER ALERT ************************ My only real irritation with Generations was the whole notion of the Nexus, and the way they use it. (Which is a problem for pretty much every story every written that's built around time/space travel.) When Guinan tells Picard that he can go anywhere/anywhen from the Nexus, he chooses to go back just several minutes, to the point where the bad guy was shooting at him. If the Nexus can send him anywhere, why not be sent to a point right behind the bad guy, or at least somewhere safe? How about being sent back 2 weeks or so, and blast the bad guy with a phazer before he even gets his plan moving? When people write "rip in the space/time continuum" stories, they should really have more imagination. Also, at first we're told that once in the Nexus, you'll never want out, or even realize it's not real. Yet Picard realizes something's wrong within a few minutes, and only needs a little prompting from Guinan to leave it all behind. Suddenly the Nexus isn't all that seductive at all. -- Aaron From nobody Fri Jul 26 05:56:20 2002 Newsgroups: alt.tv.star-trek.enterprise,alt.tv.star-trek.next-gen,alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: Okay, Maybe This Is Dumb... References: Date: 26 Jul 2002 05:56:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 14 jsavard@ecn.ab.ca () writes: > It seemed to me to be a movie that couldn't make up its mind whether > it wanted to be a Trek feast of in-jokes from beginning to end... or > a movie with a serious theme about loss, regret, and acceptance. It's been a while since I saw Generations, but I'm not sure what you mean by 'in-jokes.' Any examples? I'll have to watch for them next time. -- Aaron From nobody Sat Nov 23 07:09:25 2002 Newsgroups: alt.tv.star-trek.enterprise,alt.tv.star-trek.voyager,alt.tv.star-trek.next-gen Subject: Re: [OT] Steve's OT Movie Reviews References: <3DD6B2F2.2028@yahoo.com> <3DDB8B2F.BE8B0B9@optusnet.com.au> <3DDF43CE.8759694D@optusnet.com.au> Date: 23 Nov 2002 07:09:23 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 19 "David A McIntee" writes: > Most of the criticisms we heard about in the UK were claiming it was > racist for having black opponents to the heroes and not telling us > their side. Maybe they should have replaced the politically-unacceptable Somali bad guys with white supremacists, like the idiots who made the latest Tom Clancy movie. (Did that movie bomb? I saw a couple promos for it on TV, but I'm not sure it even made it to theaters here.) A very good book on the Somalia situation, from the viewpoint of a reporter who was there, is "Out of America," by Keith B. Richburg. He also spent time in Rwanda, but most of it takes place in Somalia. -- Aaron From nobody Sat Dec 14 07:46:46 2002 Newsgroups: alt.startrek,alt.tv.star-trek.next-gen,alt.tv.star-trek.voyager,alt.tv.star-trek.enterprise Subject: Re: Whether you hate or love Nemesis... References: <4ef350de.0212131549.788a8b28@posting.google.com> <3dfaff56$1_2@news.iglou.com> Date: 14 Dec 2002 07:46:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 14 vorxion@fairlite.com (Vorxion) writes: > What the hell was wrong with Generations? It was dark and macabre, > but it was good, IMHO. I liked it too; certainly more than most of the ones that went before it. It had a couple of "Hey, wait a minute, movie" moments regarding the Nexus, but what movie has ever used the old space/time travel idea and had it all make perfect logical sense? -- Aaron From nobody Tue Jan 21 10:16:30 2003 Newsgroups: alt.startrek,alt.tv.star-trek.ds9,alt.tv.star-trek.enterprise,alt.tv.star-trek.next-gen,alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: Patrick Stewart: to Bush: "You have a choice" References: <734f2ea8.0301201411.5193f7a7@posting.google.com> Organization: ESC Date: 21 Jan 2003 10:16:29 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 22 "Korbinian Abenthum" writes: > Anyway, what did Patrick Stewart say that annoyed you? The only > "advice" he gave was: "I would like to remind Bush, Tony Blair and > Gerhard Schröder that they have a choice." > So what? That's certainly true. War *isn't* the only option, and the > people he mentioned hopefully will consider these. But that's not what it really means. War is always the last resort for a just nation -- you don't go to war until you have no other choice. So saying "they have a choice" is just a weasely way of saying "don't go to war, period." I enjoy most of Stewart's work, but I'm not really interested in the political views of the guy who did the Erotic Cakes sketch on SNL. How can you take him seriously after that? -- Aaron From nobody Tue Jan 21 10:21:40 2003 Newsgroups: alt.startrek,alt.tv.star-trek.ds9,alt.tv.star-trek.enterprise,alt.tv.star-trek.next-gen,alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: Patrick Stewart: to Bush: "You have a choice" References: Organization: ESC Date: 21 Jan 2003 10:21:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 20 odeus@bigfoot.com (O Deus) writes: > If we do try to create an analogue between the Nemesis solution and > the Iraq problem, we'd have the US team up with some of Saddam's > generals to kill him and his Republican Guard off alltogether. Which > is still probably not what Stewart had in mind when he misrepresents > Nemesis' plot as an anti-war editorial. So Hollywood movie-makers are hypocrites. There's a shocker. Kind of like the way they all push for gun control, but they're perfectly happy making money off movies where the heroes shoot everybody. They make Bill Clinton look like an amateur when it comes to 'compartmentalizing.' Did you know Clint Eastwood thought Dirty Harry was the bad guy? -- Aaron From nobody Tue Jan 21 18:10:17 2003 Newsgroups: alt.tv.star-trek.enterprise,alt.tv.star-trek.next-gen,alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: [AOB] WAY OT: Hooray for ME! References: <3E2CC26F.1090304@swbell.net> Organization: ESC Date: 21 Jan 2003 18:10:16 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 16 "EvilBill[AGQx]" writes: > Trouble with getting Macs and/or Linux is, most games are made for > Windows, plus you can't run MSN Messenger. Which is what most of my > online friends use A search for 'MSN' in the ports tree of FreeBSD comes up with five different clients. Some of them also handle other messaging clients, which is handy if you have friends on more than one system. I suspect all of them are available for Linux as well, but I can't vouch for how good any of them are. -- Aaron From nobody Wed Apr 2 12:56:47 2003 Newsgroups: alt.tv.star-trek.next-gen,alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: OT: Why I'm gonna go bankrupt on June 3rd References: <260320032339195264%no@spam.invalid> <3e837c95.1968996@news2.wwnet.net> <3E83C8B9.2C8640C8@hotmail.com> <3e84e78c.1288834@news2.wwnet.net> <020420031031098245%no@spam.invalid> Organization: ESC Date: 02 Apr 2003 12:56:46 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 11 Keeper of the Purple Twilight writes: > Doesn't anyone else remember 'Chess' and that weird song about > Bangkok? Got the CD right here. -- Aaron From nobody Wed Apr 2 19:13:36 2003 Newsgroups: alt.tv.star-trek.next-gen,alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: OT: Why I'm gonna go bankrupt on June 3rd Organization: ESC Date: 02 Apr 2003 19:13:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 14 kaboom@7of.9 writes: > **I've got the damn thing on...LP! Get out the Geritol. > > >Got the CD right here. [of "Chess"] Mine is the live "Original Broadway Cast Recording," so it's not quite the same as the radio version. I didn't like it as much at first, but it's grown on me. -- Aaron From nobody Wed Feb 21 08:10:59 2007 Newsgroups: alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: What is the most depressing episode of STV? References: <1167983013.983986.65710@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> <542nu5F1uu901U1@mid.individual.net> From: Aaron Baugher Organization: Baugher Salvage and Really Wild Stuff Corporation Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 08:10:57 -0600 Message-ID: <86vehvzjm6.fsf@bannor.baugher.biz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 17 "EvilBill" writes: > That rumour's been bandied around before; not sure if *anyone* knows > whether it's true. But I think Braga just wanted to get some T&A on > the show (as if Jennifer Lien wasn't beautiful anyway...) She certainly was, but everything about her character conspired to make her as un-sexy as possible: being two years old, being kind of quiet and dowdy and naive, and worst of all, being Neelix's girlfriend. Who even wants to think about that? -- "Take what you need and leave the rest." From nobody Mon Feb 26 07:31:03 2007 Newsgroups: alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: Voyager is the best? References: <1172373788.708154.227900@z35g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <2083-45E1D558-223@storefull-3132.bay.webtv.net> From: Aaron Baugher Organization: Baugher Salvage and Really Wild Stuff Corporation Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 07:31:01 -0600 Message-ID: <86slct9hbe.fsf@bannor.baugher.biz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 16 headbanger11421@webtv.net (Chris ®) writes: > Jeri Ryan did not make the show worse, but her arrival coincides > with a significant downturn in the quality of the writing. Wow, that's scary. I've only seen the first three seasons (borrowed them all, but my DVD player broke down a couple weeks ago, near the end of the third season), and the writing hasn't been anything to brag about so far. Isn't the fourth season generally considered the best? -- "Take what you need and leave the rest." From nobody Mon Feb 26 07:46:09 2007 Newsgroups: alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: What is the most depressing episode of STV? References: <1167983013.983986.65710@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> <542nu5F1uu901U1@mid.individual.net> <86vehvzjm6.fsf@bannor.baugher.biz> From: Aaron Baugher Organization: Baugher Salvage and Really Wild Stuff Corporation Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 07:46:08 -0600 Message-ID: <86odnh9gm7.fsf@bannor.baugher.biz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 44 "Patrick D. Rockwell" writes: > True. She wasn't the standard Hollywood beauty. To me, Hollywood > isn't just a city, it's a metaphor for everything that is cliché and > banal. One of my first thoughts about Kes was that being who she > was, she challenged our notions about age of consent, and I thought > that it would be interesting to watch her relationship with Neelix > or others play out. My problem with her relationship with Neelix was that it took a long time for me to figure out whether it existed, or what it consisted of. I got the feeling from certain lines that they were supposed to be a couple, but I saw zero charisma between their characters. I'm fine with their devotion to each other and their friendship; I just didn't buy them as a couple, and it took at least two seasons before I was sure the writers did. There are too many scenes that just don't fit the context of a committed relationship, like when he's hinting around about her having a date, or knocking on her door before entering. If not for a couple scenes here and there, I would have said Neelix had a major crush on Kes, and she really wanted to Just Be Friends, but was too young and/or grateful to him to completely shoot him down -- until an alien possessed her and did it for her, which she seemed relieved about afterwards. It was like a bad 80s teen movie where the awkward boy chases the beautiful girl who doesn't know he exists -- except that in this case, he was supposed to have already caught her, and then lost her at the end of the movie when she realized he really was a needy creep. Don't get me wrong; I thought they did things to make the *character* un-sexy, but Lien herself was very hot, and some of that came through in the character anyway. I thought there was quite a bit of heat between her and Paris early on, even before they started to develop that whole story-line around Neelix's jealousy. I don't think watching her have a relationship with someone else would have creeped me out, so I guess my problem was with Neelix, or the specific combination of the two. -- "Take what you need and leave the rest." From nobody Mon Mar 5 09:35:58 2007 Newsgroups: alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: 4th Season Enterprise - SEASON RANKINGS - 5 star poll References: <11c5mhvgq15vr0d@news.supernews.com> <1120233634.392372.100200@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <45E7BE1D.25D88DD5@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> <1fnfu2dte09fcvfl6t1vqvu7ack0t5ffqe@4ax.com> <45E7E31B.D0B8911A@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> <45EB2E39.890D4C65@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> <45EBB5B6.7E349028@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> From: Aaron Baugher Organization: Baugher Salvage and Really Wild Stuff Corporation Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 09:35:57 -0600 Message-ID: <868xebd7oi.fsf@bannor.baugher.biz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 28 Tim Bruening writes: >> > But if she hadn't destroyed the Array, the Kazon would have used >> > it to destroy the Ocampa! >> All she needs is a bomb with a time delay. > What's to keep the Kazon from disarming it? The fact that the Kazon were completely clueless about Federation technology. These guys hadn't even discovered you could burn hydrogen to get water, after all. When some Kazon managed to nab a Federation replicator, they killed themselves trying to figure out how it worked. Even if they found out there was a bomb on the array and located it before it went off, were they really going to disarm it in time without triggering it? Besides, what about the Prime Directive that Janeway got so obsessed with in later episodes? How could the PD allow interfering in the conflict between the Kazon and the Ocampa that way? -- "Take what you need and leave the rest." From nobody Sat Mar 10 10:57:48 2007 Newsgroups: alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: STV episode "Prey" made no sense References: <5LpIh.3311$tv6.1@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net> From: Aaron Baugher Organization: Baugher Salvage and Really Wild Stuff Corporation Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 10:57:47 -0600 Message-ID: <866499f33o.fsf@bannor.baugher.biz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 28 "Patrick D. Rockwell" writes: > I even remember one episode in Voyager, and one in Enterprise where > an alien being attached itself to a crewmen, and the doctor of that > series refused to remove it if doing so would harm the alien. The worst was an early episode of Voyager, when the Vidiians stole Neelix's lungs and put them in one of their people. They eventually technobabbled a solution that allowed everyone to live, but before that, Janeway was actually going to let Neelix die rather than take the stolen lungs back. Apparently the rarely mentioned corollary to the Prime Directive is what an ex of mine said when I wanted my stereo back: "Possession is nine-tenths of the law." Great way to inspire loyalty in your crew: "If I ever have to decide between your life and the life of an alien who attacked you, you're SOL." I'm so glad she dropped the we-are-the-world routine somewhat later on. By the time they came to that one species that was known for not letting anyone cross their huge territory, she was like, "Go around? Are you kidding? Screw their territorial rights; we're coming through." -- "Take what you need and leave the rest." From nobody Sat Mar 17 13:22:00 2007 Newsgroups: alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: STV episode "Prey" made no sense References: <5LpIh.3311$tv6.1@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net> <866499f33o.fsf@bannor.baugher.biz> From: Aaron Baugher Organization: Baugher Salvage and Really Wild Stuff Corporation Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 13:22:00 -0500 Message-ID: <86ps77spbr.fsf@bannor.baugher.biz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 18 "Patrick D. Rockwell" writes: > You have a good point! Actually, I think that the point in that > episode was that once Neelix's lungs were put in the Vidiian, they > carried the phage and couldn't be put in someone who wasn't infected > with infecting them. That would have made more sense. Maybe you should have been a writer on Voyager. I don't think that was the case, though, because then Janeway wouldn't have had that scene of hand-wringing and moralizing about how she just couldn't take one person's life to save another. -- "Take what you need and leave the rest." From nobody Fri May 18 07:36:07 2007 Newsgroups: alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: The Bigots Guide to Voyager References: <1179356340.126567.302820@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> <464cc957$0$328$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <%193i.482995$c62.64012@fe07.news.easynews.com> From: Aaron Baugher Organization: Baugher Salvage and Really Wild Stuff Corporation Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 07:36:06 -0500 Message-ID: <86iraq1f7t.fsf@brinn.baugher.biz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 50 "Atlas Bugged" writes: > People seem to love DS9 or hate it, that's one reason I'm taking > another look. DS9 goes beyond Star Trek, which I think is why it gets that reaction. For people who like their Trek to stick to the formula, DS9 was just too different, with its long story arcs and consequences and lack of easy answers and weekly lessons. But if you can accept it on its own terms without saying, "Kirk/Picard would never do that!" it's a great show. It kept a lot of the optimism of Trek while dropping some of the sillier utopian stuff, and added so much more, like real stories and relationships. I consider DS9 the best overall show of the bunch, but TNG the best Trek. TNG had all the 'Trek' qualities of the original, plus good effects, a captain who could act, and a good overall cast. Voyager started out promising, but soon dropped most of the interesting story lines within the crew and turned into TNG in the Delta Quadrant with an extra helping of political correctness and no particular direction. It's still watchable -- I'm currently working my way through it, out of stubbornness as much as anything -- but I wouldn't recommend it to my friends. I've never seen Enterprise, and I haven't heard any reason I should. I see TOS as a beta version -- kind of buggy and rough around the edges, but it introduced a lot of the qualities that were eventually used in the finished product that was TNG. > Good Trek, no matter where, or when, or how infrequently it pops up, > makes me happy :-) That's the thing: I think it's hard to make really unwatchable Trek, because the universe and general attitude are so familiar and comfortable and well-designed. I can sit down and watch an episode of Voyager, and even though it's completely predictable and formulaic, at least I don't have to work too hard to understand it. Other sci-fi shows like Andromeda, or even a far superior one like Farscape, don't have that baseline of comfort to work with. You have to do a certain amount of mental work to appreciate those shows, because you don't already know what to expect with them. -- "Take what you need and leave the rest." From nobody Fri May 18 07:47:20 2007 Newsgroups: alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: The Bigots Guide to Voyager References: <1179356340.126567.302820@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> From: Aaron Baugher Organization: Baugher Salvage and Really Wild Stuff Corporation Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 07:47:20 -0500 Message-ID: <86ejle1ep3.fsf@brinn.baugher.biz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 30 "Benjamin Pavsner" writes: > OK, Star Trek was about what, nearly thirty years old at this point? > I don't remember alien species having "races" as humans do. OK, some > Klingons have darker complexions (Worf and Kern, for example) as > they're played by black actors, but I don't remember aliens having > actual RACES like we humans do. Granted, I'm not COMPLAINING, per > se, but I don't like political correctness shoved down my throat, > either. I've always thought it's funny that Star Trek gets so much credit for battling racism, mainly because it had a black woman as a bridge officer. Granted, that was pretty bold, but when you look beyond the humans, Star Trek is built around the idea that people who look the same act the same. Klingons: hot-tempered and warlike. Vulcans: unemotional and logical. Bajorans: spiritual and superstitious. And so on and on. It's pre-1950s institutionalized prejudice, just with "race" replaced with "species." I don't necessarily have a problem with it, because it sets up recognizable archetypes for storytelling purposes; but it surprises me that the people who congratulate Trek for Lt. Uhura don't seem to have a problem with all the rest. -- "Take what you need and leave the rest." From nobody Mon May 21 08:06:03 2007 Newsgroups: alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: The Bigots Guide to Voyager References: <1179356340.126567.302820@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> <464cc957$0$328$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <%193i.482995$c62.64012@fe07.news.easynews.com> <86iraq1f7t.fsf@brinn.baugher.biz> <5b5rdhF2ro1c6U1@mid.individual.net> From: Aaron Baugher Organization: Baugher Salvage and Really Wild Stuff Corporation Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 08:06:01 -0500 Message-ID: <86abvywcli.fsf@brinn.baugher.biz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 19 "EvilBill" writes: > Aaron Baugher wrote: >> >> That's the thing: I think it's hard to make really unwatchable Trek, > Unless you count "Threshold" and the Fair Haven episodes... Well, I did say "hard," not "impossible." I just got to Voyager's "Favorite Son," and if that's not unwatchable, it's at least un-re-watchable. Although it'd make a good MST3K episode -- maybe on a double bill with "Threshold." -- "Take what you need and leave the rest." From nobody Mon May 21 08:36:35 2007 Newsgroups: alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: The Bigots Guide to Voyager References: <1179356340.126567.302820@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> <464cc957$0$328$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <5b5r3qF2ql8orU1@mid.individual.net> From: Aaron Baugher Organization: Baugher Salvage and Really Wild Stuff Corporation Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 08:36:33 -0500 Message-ID: <863b1qwb6m.fsf@brinn.baugher.biz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 57 David Johnston writes: > "EvilBill" wrote: >>dave wrote: >>> 4. DS9 Had it's moments but was boring soap opera-ish >>Soap operas involve politics, religious conflict and massive >>interstellar wars? Guess I didn't get the memo. ;) Apparently many Trek fans have a hard time dealing with characters having actual romances that last more than one episode, so that's called "soap opera-ish." Acceptable Trek relationships must fall into one of these categories: 1) One-night stands. (Kirk and everyone.) 2) The relationship takes place off-screen to give the characters baggage for all the angsty geek viewers to identify with, but never continues on-screen, unless the producers give in and throw the fans a bone in a later movie. (Riker and Troi.) 3) One member dies tragically or is forced to leave by the end of the episode. (Too many to count.) 4) The relationship never exists at all except in wishful thinking by the fans and piles of fan-fic. (Janeway and Chakotay.) Real romantic relationships between adults that develop over multiple episodes and seasons and have consequences? That's just not Star Trek. > Well I've seen a soap opera involving a mad scientist threatening > the world with weather control... Ah yes, "Let He Who Is Without Sin," the worst DS9 episode by many miles. It's so amazingly bad in every way, from the awkward, forced relationship between Dax and Worf to the Al Gore-wannabe who wants to make everyone stop having fun and go back to living in caves or something. It's really hard to imagine how that episode happened. Maybe someone slipped acid into their food that week or something. It's more jarring than the worst of Voyager, because that was season five of DS9, after the show had really hit its stride, and here's this steaming pile right in the middle of it. It's mind-boggling. It's not fair to judge a show by its worst episode in seven seasons, though. If you're going to do that, you'd end up claiming that every Star Trek series sucked rocks, because they all had at least one embarrassingly bad outing. -- "Take what you need and leave the rest." From nobody Thu May 24 09:38:55 2007 Newsgroups: alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: The Bigots Guide to Voyager References: <1179356340.126567.302820@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> <464e431a$0$9064$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au> <464ece4f$0$331$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <4653dddd$0$17969$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au> <465419e6.406349375@news-server.houston.rr.com> From: Aaron Baugher Organization: Baugher Salvage and Really Wild Stuff Corporation Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 09:38:52 -0500 Message-ID: <86r6p6nv5v.fsf@brinn.baugher.biz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 18 RWF writes: > While strictly speaking, I wouldn't exactly call Voyager a 'spinoff' > of DS9 (because by the very definition, there's usually a carryover > character from one show to the next), DS9 was a starting point for > at least part of Voyager. I would call Voyager a parallel series to > DS9. Where TNG was a successor to TOS, and DS9 actually spun off > from TNG (Worf). You're thinking of Chief O'Brien. Worf didn't join DS9 until season four. Little late for any spinning-off at that point. -- "Take what you need and leave the rest." From nobody Sat May 26 06:41:54 2007 Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv,alt.tv.star-trek.tos,alt.tv.star-trek.voyager,alt.tv.star-trek.enterprise,alt.startrek Subject: Re: The Bigots Guide to Voyager References: <1179356340.126567.302820@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> <464e431a$0$9064$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au> <135er45qk8c1f1c@corp.supernews.com> From: Aaron Baugher Organization: Baugher Salvage and Really Wild Stuff Corporation Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 06:41:46 -0500 Message-ID: <86bqg7n75x.fsf@brinn.baugher.biz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 35 Michael Bowker writes: > Actually both DS9 and Voyager were sequels to TNG, weren't they? Not really. DS9 started while TNG was still going. Voyager started while DS9 was going, right after TNG stopped. If you leave DS9 out of it, Voyager looks very much like a sequel to TNG. It started the next year after TNG ended, and it continued the same formula: Captain and crew exploring space on a starship, meeting diverse aliens and learning weekly lessons through episodic plots, with little carry-over from one episode or season to the next. DS9 is more like a spin-off. It took the O'Briens (and later Worf) and plugged them into a new show that was in the Star Trek universe, but very different in nature. It explored issues like religion, politics, romance, and war that the other Treks rarely touched except in passing. (Or to take a shot at, like, "Oh yeah, we humans used to have religion too, when we were barbarians living in caves.") DS9 had very few Aliens of the Week, especially after the third season. It introduced a handful of new species that were needed for the ongoing plot and developed them. It was a completely different show, just borrowing some of the basic concepts of standard Trek. Look at it this way: If TNG is "All in the Family", then DS9 is "The Jeffersons" (a spin-off with a couple characters in a different neighborhood with a very different feel), and Voyager is "Archie Bunker's Place," that sad attempt to keep the show going when it was played out by moving it to a bar. -- "Take what you need and leave the rest." From nobody Tue May 29 10:57:52 2007 Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.sf.tv,rec.arts.startrek.current,alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: VOYAGER - it doesn't make sense to stop & gather food from a References: <1179954554.883556.89340@p47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> <4lc6i.319130$2Q1.230412@newsfe16.lga> <1338723@news1.IPSWITCHS.CMM> From: Aaron Baugher Organization: Baugher Salvage and Really Wild Stuff Corporation Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 10:57:49 -0500 Message-ID: <86abvn7hc2.fsf@brinn.baugher.biz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 37 Sean Carroll writes: > Dan Lanciani wrote: >> When you beam something into space, where do the available >> particles come from? > Even the emptiest space in the Universe has a sea of virtual quantum > particles appearing and disappearing in various arbitrary > ways. There is a basic zero-point vacuum energy that can be tapped > in many ways, theoretically. Matter is always being created and > quickly 'destroyed' (turned back to energy) and then created again > and again, all over the place. If the transporter is capable of gathering up a bunch of zero-point forces and turning them into whatever matter/energy it has in its pattern buffer (as when Paris and Torres transported themselves into space when their shuttle was coming apart), then Voyager should never have had any shortages. Simply transport some warp plasma, or food, or replicator goo into space, to get the pattern in the buffer. Then put a GOTO in the code so it skips the "breakdown" step and goes right to forming the same pattern in space again. Or, since zero-point forces are everywhere, make it more convenient by creating it in a containment field, or the mess hall, or wherever you want it. I don't think there's one answer that satisfies all episodes. Sometimes the transporters acted like straight matter/energy converters, and sometimes they didn't. -- "Take what you need and leave the rest." From nobody Tue May 29 11:03:11 2007 Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.sf.tv,rec.arts.startrek.current,alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: VOYAGER - it doesn't make sense to stop & gather food from a planet References: <1179954554.883556.89340@p47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> <1180016010.642309.37950@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> <7vre53lq4tehf8bcnrnlm0alsqhnjm2tmo@4ax.com> From: Aaron Baugher Organization: Baugher Salvage and Really Wild Stuff Corporation Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 11:03:08 -0500 Message-ID: <86646b7h37.fsf@brinn.baugher.biz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 23 Sean Carroll writes: > Every time someone transports out, their last pattern is stored in > the buffer. They've used this several times, I seem to recal, to > reconstruct a person lost in transport, even though their original > matter was destroyed or dispersed. They simply use the recorded > information to reconstruct a new copy, out of new matter, in the > exact same state the original was in at the moment of transport. Which raises the obvious question: Why didn't they make occasional "backup copies" of themselves? Yeah, yeah, it took large amounts of memory. Whatever. If one transporter can hold the patterns of a half-dozen people, the ship's memory ought to be able to do far more than that. If nothing else, one transporter room could be used to hold backups of the senior officers, and whenever they stopped at a starbase, they could make backups of themselves there too. -- "Take what you need and leave the rest." From nobody Wed May 30 07:33:09 2007 Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.sf.tv,rec.arts.startrek.current,alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: VOYAGER - it doesn't make sense to stop & gather food from a References: <1179954554.883556.89340@p47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> <4lc6i.319130$2Q1.230412@newsfe16.lga> <1338723@news1.IPSWITCHS.CMM> <86abvn7hc2.fsf@brinn.baugher.biz> From: Aaron Baugher Organization: Baugher Salvage and Really Wild Stuff Corporation Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 07:33:06 -0500 Message-ID: <86y7j64hkt.fsf@brinn.baugher.biz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 16 Anim8rFSK writes: > The only shortage they had was food, 'cause replicator power is > different. That was the shortage they talked about the most, but they often stopped at planets for one kind of phlebotinum or another. Surely it wasn't always for the replicators -- at least the 'babble terms weren't always the same. -- "Take what you need and leave the rest." From nobody Wed May 30 07:44:54 2007 Newsgroups: alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: Top 5 ST: Voyager episodes that give me nightmares References: <1180296303.075890.106710@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> <1180407730.665555.291030@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> From: Aaron Baugher Organization: Baugher Salvage and Really Wild Stuff Corporation Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 07:44:54 -0500 Message-ID: <86tztu4h15.fsf@brinn.baugher.biz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 35 wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) writes: > In the Tuvix case, the question would be something like "Given that > you can have either Tuvix and no Neelix or Tuvok, or Neelix and > Tuvok and no Tuvix, which is morally correct?" And, of course, > "Should 'what the status quo is, i.e., what will be the result if I > take no action?' be considered relevant in making the decision?" Since this is science fiction, after all, I'd liken it to an alien absorbing Tuvok and Neelix, making them unconscious, and subsuming their personalities and memories into its own. It might be perfectly happy with this new Tuvok/Neelix personality and memory, and Tuvok and Neelix wouldn't know the difference, but wouldn't you kill the alien to free them if that's what it took? Clearly, Tuvok and Neelix would not have wanted to be combined. (Well, maybe Neelix would think it was a cool idea, but even he wouldn't want it forever.) As Tuvix, they were no longer able to speak for themselves, but that doesn't invalidate their wishes as long as it's still possible for them to be made whole again. A problem with a lot of sci-fi is that it takes the attitude that whatever is happening *now* -- in the characters' perception -- is what's "right", and anything else would be tampering. This is especially ridiculous in time-travel stories, but it fits here too. It's like making "possession is nine-tenths of the law" part of the Prime Directive. That's what your ex-girlfriend says when you want your stereo back; it's not how you decide life-and-death matters. -- "Take what you need and leave the rest." From nobody Thu May 31 09:55:50 2007 Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.sf.tv,rec.arts.startrek.current,alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: VOYAGER - it doesn't make sense to stop & gather food from a planet References: <1179954554.883556.89340@p47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> <1180015890.807334.287360@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> <1180032487.872789.293180@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> <1180525701.132377.116320@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> From: Aaron Baugher Organization: Baugher Salvage and Really Wild Stuff Corporation Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 09:55:49 -0500 Message-ID: <863b1d3uve.fsf@brinn.baugher.biz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 35 SFTVratings writes: > Let's bring this down to TODAY'S world. Maybe you'll better > understand the concept. I need to conserve energy. Which is more > efficient: > > - driving to work and burning 2 gallons of gasoline per day > - staying at home and doing my work there (hence NOT burning gasoline) That's a pretty crummy analogy. Here's a better one: Which is cheaper, going out to eat, or staying home and cooking a meal? Normally cooking at home is much cheaper, but if the gas company turned off your gas, that's not an option, so you have to go out. That's the situation they presented on Voyager. They simply didn't have enough "replicator energy" to supply all their needs, so it wasn't a question of efficiency. Yeah, it's stupid, and yeah, it makes no sense, but there it is. > The same principle applies to the replicator. It makes more sense > for the crew to "stay home" and eat food in the ship, rather than go > taking a journey to a planet & wasting several megawatts of energy. How on earth can you compare the two, when both technologies are fictional and vaguely defined? Where are you getting "several megawatts," other than pulling it out of your hat? Why not "gigawatts" or "terrajoules"? We have absolutely no way of calculating how much either costs. -- "Take what you need and leave the rest." From nobody Thu May 31 09:57:33 2007 Newsgroups: alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: Top 5 ST: Voyager episodes that give me nightmares References: <1180407730.665555.291030@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> From: Aaron Baugher Organization: Baugher Salvage and Really Wild Stuff Corporation Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 09:57:32 -0500 Message-ID: <86y7j52g83.fsf@brinn.baugher.biz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 16 wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) writes: > I don't know. I lean towards "you've got to hold your nose and > respect the rights of the person who is standing there" though, in > no small part because once you accept something like "that person is > suffering from a false consciousness; it is our right/duty to cure > him" you're getting awfully close to Soviet mental hospitals. Or public schools. -- "Take what you need and leave the rest." From nobody Mon Jun 4 13:05:34 2007 Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.sf.tv,rec.arts.startrek.current,alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: VOYAGER - it doesn't make sense to stop & gather food from a planet References: <1179954554.883556.89340@p47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> <1180015890.807334.287360@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> <1180032487.872789.293180@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> <1180525701.132377.116320@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> <863b1d3uve.fsf@brinn.baugher.biz> From: Aaron Baugher Organization: Baugher Salvage and Really Wild Stuff Corporation Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2007 13:05:31 -0500 Message-ID: <86tztnoas4.fsf@brinn.baugher.biz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 15 Sean Carroll writes: > For one thing, there's no such thing as 'terrajoules', unless you're > talking about some kind of strange Earth-energy. That was my point. As long as we're comparing measurements that we're pulling completely out of our asses, they might as well be in fictional sci-fi-ish units too. -- "Take what you need and leave the rest." From nobody Mon Jun 4 13:13:42 2007 Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.sf.tv,rec.arts.startrek.current,alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: VOYAGER - it doesn't make sense to stop & gather food from a planet References: <1179954554.883556.89340@p47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> <1180015890.807334.287360@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> <1180032487.872789.293180@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> <1180525701.132377.116320@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> <863b1d3uve.fsf@brinn.baugher.biz> <1180641690.371658.296680@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> From: Aaron Baugher Organization: Baugher Salvage and Really Wild Stuff Corporation Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2007 13:13:40 -0500 Message-ID: <86ps4boaej.fsf@brinn.baugher.biz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 34 SFTVratings writes: > Hence the title of my post: "it doesn't make sense". All they have > to do is divert some energy from the warp drive to the replicator & > make food. Agreed. The concept of "replicator power" that can't be converted to and from other "types" of power is ridiculous. >> How on earth can you compare the two, when both technologies are >> fictional and vaguely defined? Where are you getting "several >> megawatts," other than pulling it out of your hat? > (sigh) It was just a casual expression in a casual conversation. > Megawatts. Gigawatts. It doesn't matter.... the point is youre > burning a LOT more energy trying to climb a shuttle (laden with > Leola roots) out of a gravity well, then if you just walked to the > mess hall & replicated some meatloaf. Casual or formal, it still makes no sense. We can determine how much energy it takes to lift a pound of food into orbit, although it's going to vary based on the gravity and size of the planet. But we have no idea how efficient replication is, so how can you say it costs more or less than any other process? You aren't comparing apples to oranges, you're comparing apples to the mystery fruit behind door #3. -- "Take what you need and leave the rest." From nobody Tue Jun 19 17:04:00 2007 Newsgroups: alt.tv.star-trek.ds9,alt.tv.star-trek.enterprise,alt.tv.star-trek.next-gen,alt.tv.star-trek.tos,alt.tv.star-trek.voyager,rec.arts.sf.written,alt.books.isaac-asimov,alt.fan.piers-anthony Subject: Re: Science Fiction? References: <1120910816.584227.65040@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <4677B14D.5EC0F533@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> From: Aaron Baugher Organization: Baugher Salvage and Really Wild Stuff Corporation Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 17:03:59 -0500 Message-ID: <864pl37ga8.fsf@brinn.baugher.biz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 20 Tim Bruening writes: >> What in your opinion is the best example of Science Fiction and why? > The Foundation Series by Isaac Asimov > Nightfall by Asimov. > Star Trek. > Babylon 5. > Piers Anthony's Apprentice Adept series. What? You just threw this last one in to see if anyone was paying attention to the cross-posting, right? -- "Take what you need and leave the rest." From nobody Thu Jun 21 07:22:01 2007 Newsgroups: alt.tv.star-trek.ds9,alt.tv.star-trek.enterprise,alt.tv.star-trek.next-gen,alt.tv.star-trek.tos,alt.tv.star-trek.voyager,rec.arts.sf.written,alt.books.isaac-asimov,alt.fan.piers-anthony Subject: Re: Science Fiction? References: <1120910816.584227.65040@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <4677B14D.5EC0F533@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> <864pl37ga8.fsf@brinn.baugher.biz> <467895AA.197BF3D0@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> From: Aaron Baugher Organization: Baugher Salvage and Really Wild Stuff Corporation Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 07:22:00 -0500 Message-ID: <86y7id33br.fsf@brinn.baugher.biz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 44 Tim Bruening writes: > Aaron Baugher wrote: > >> Tim Bruening writes: >> >> What in your opinion is the best example of Science Fiction and >> >> why? >> > The Foundation Series by Isaac Asimov >> > Nightfall by Asimov. >> > Star Trek. >> > Babylon 5. >> >> > Piers Anthony's Apprentice Adept series. >> >> What? You just threw this last one in to see if anyone was paying >> attention to the cross-posting, right? > > Nope. The Apprentice Adept series features a highly scientific > planet named Proton (Ruled by Citizens, who are served by naked > Serfs), which supplies the galaxy with a fuel called Protonite. Its > connected via a curtain to a magical planet called Phaze, which is > ruled by Adepts. Yes, I have the books and have read it a few times, and enjoyed it very much. Stile is a great character. I just wouldn't put in a list of "best examples of science fiction." It's half sci-fi at best, and even that half is more fantasy than science. Not that the other entries on your list were hard science either, but the Adept series is the only one with outright magic. If I wanted to include something from Anthony, maybe Bio of a Space Tyrant, the Cluster series, or Macroscope (one of my favorite books). I read everything I could find by Anthony until the Xanth series started feeling tired, and I got old enough that I felt a little skeevy reading stories featuring young girls and their panties. -- "Take what you need and leave the rest." From nobody Sat Jun 30 06:43:08 2007 Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.sf.tv,rec.arts.startrek.current,alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: VOYAGER - it doesn't make sense to stop & gather food from a planet References: <11nf631t65oprjmof89dh91q2dhi83vgje@4ax.com> <5d5hodF335bggU1@mid.individual.net> <7qa7739jo1qu046jg9rrfbh316obqnvfgl@4ax.com> <5e268mF3714utU1@mid.individual.net> <5eiglfF38qqliU1@mid.individual.net> <5eil55F397evcU1@mid.individual.net> <5eit09F38dg0iU1@mid.individual.net> <5ejugsF38j65tU1@mid.individual.net> <5ekl0mF39843qU1@mid.individual.net> From: Aaron Baugher Organization: Baugher Salvage and Really Wild Stuff Corporation Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 06:43:05 -0500 Message-ID: <86y7i1llbq.fsf@brinn.baugher.biz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 15 "EvilBill" writes: > It might be noted, however, that to hang out in a pub regularly you > need enough money to buy drinks for both yourself and potential > dates... I'm kinda broke right now. LOL That's ok, because rule #1 is: Never, ever, ever buy a woman a drink. Let them buy you drinks, and your success rate will soar. -- "Take what you need and leave the rest." From nobody Fri Aug 24 08:06:12 2007 Newsgroups: alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: Contradiction... References: From: Aaron Baugher Organization: Baugher Salvage and Really Wild Stuff Corporation Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 08:06:12 -0500 Message-ID: <861wdtt73v.fsf@brinn.baugher.biz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 37 Marcel Gratz writes: > I've got a simple question, but no answer... The crew of the > Voyager, regardless their languages, can talk vis-a-vis to each > other by means of their communicators with built-in universal > translators. > Question: How is it possible in "Basics", where the Kazons took > their whole technology (also their communicators) to converse with > each other? In particular, Neelix probably would have the most > problems due to his completely foreign language... The Universal Translator (UT) picks up on language cues in a new alien's speech, learns its language, and translates on the fly. Apparently it's able to do this almost instantly with the first word that's spoken, because when they meet alien species, they don't babble at each other for a while before it catches on and kicks in; it works right away. Also, while it might be believable that the great-and-powerful ship's computer could pull this off somewhat, it's not actually required. We've seen the UT continue to work when crew members are stranded far from any ship, so apparently the UT is built into their comm badges. Powerful little buggers, huh? Yes, it's just as silly as it sounds. Douglas Adams's Babelfish is more plausible. The UT is TV magic for the sake of moving the story along without every alien contact getting bogged down in language issues. When they do want to base a story on communication problems, it's easy to 'babble up a failure of the UT. -- "Take what you need and leave the rest." From nobody Fri Oct 12 15:58:23 2007 Newsgroups: alt.tv.star-trek.voyager Subject: Re: The 37s: Car In Space References: <470F2035.449C5083@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> From: Aaron Baugher Organization: Baugher Salvage and Really Wild Stuff Corporation Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 15:58:23 -0500 Message-ID: <86odf4vymo.fsf@brinn.baugher.biz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 27 Ed Goldberg writes: > Tim Bruening wrote: >> Early in this episode, Voyager finds a 1930s style car floating in >> space. Amazingly, Paris is able to get it running! It still had >> gasoline in its tank, water in its radiator, engine oil, and air in >> its tires. How in the world did the car hold on to its volatile >> substances in the vacuum of space? > I'm no expert, but that truck was drifting light years from any solar > system. Therefore everything liquid like gas, oil, and water > should've frozen solid. But the tires should've exploded when exposed > to the vacuum of space. I'm not so sure about that. The pressure difference between inside and outside the tire would only be 15psi higher than on Earth. Tires aren't likely to burst just from being over-inflated by 15 psi. One time I hooked an air hose to one of mine and got distracted and forgot about it, and it was well over 100 psi by the time I remembered (35 was the recommended pressure), but it didn't burst. -- "Take what you need and leave the rest."