From nobody Tue Feb 4 20:11:41 2003
Newsgroups: alt.fan.elite
Subject: Patches for E-TNK
Organization: ESC
Date: 04 Feb 2003 20:11:41 -0600
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I intended to announce this on the Elite - The New Kind forums, but
they appear to be down or gone right now, so I'll do it here. I've
written a few little patches for the E-TNK source code, to do
auto-saves and a few other handy things I wanted. You can get them at
the URL below; I've split them up into separate files, one for each
new feature. Feel free to use them and send me ideas on how they
could be improved.
--
From nobody Mon Feb 10 19:34:23 2003
Newsgroups: alt.fan.elite
Subject: Re: TNK Pulled, but on what grounds really.
References:
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Date: 10 Feb 2003 19:34:23 -0600
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"Barry Barcrest" writes:
> If you wrote elite from the ground up and called it something else
> then braben would have problems pulling it. You can't copyright
> descriptive terms like SOAP and so the ship names are on dodgy
> ground as they are just snake names that he has no hold over. The
> ships are geometric shapes and so he couldn't have copyright on
> thoose. How the hell can you copyright a dodecahydron? The scanner
> design I agree is dodgy but come on he's come this for long enough.
I think he'd have a case over some of those things from a 'look and
feel' perspective. To write an Elite-type game without infringing
upon Elite's copyright, you'd probably have to at least change the
planet names, missions, ship shapes, scanner, and some other
cosmetics. But you couldn't be expected to get rid of things like
hyperspace or docking with space stations, since those things are
common to many games. You'd have to write the code from scratch, of
course.
> Bloody hell the thing will be public domain soon then he can't say
> anything. To be honest i think he can only ask that copyright parts
> be removed and he would be in contest with bell over some of this
> anyway....
Of course the biggest problem he'd have actually pursuing a copyright
case is that TNK hasn't been making any money for its creators, so
there's no pile of money to go after in civil court. So Bell has to
count on the upstanding decency of Christian and the other Elite-clone
developers to go along with him, since he really can't threaten them
with much unless he has money to burn on pointless court cases.
> All very dodgy.
Seems to me there should be some sort of corollary to the copyright
law that says, "If something that infringes on your copyright is being
developed right out in plain sight in public for months/years,
representing hours and hours of hard work on the part of its
developers, and you do nothing to stop it until all their work is
complete, you lose your turn."
Or better yet, change the copyright length on computer software to
something like ten years maximum, and making it non-transferable. How
many programs are actually commercially profitable after that amount
of time, anyway? Using the 75-year rule, and letting copyrights
transfer all over the place through corporate sales and bankruptcies
(try to figure out who owns the copyright on some Commodore stuff
sometime) doesn't profit anyone.
--
From nobody Tue Feb 11 06:21:45 2003
Newsgroups: alt.fan.elite
Subject: Re: TNK Pulled, but on what grounds really.
Organization: ESC
Date: 11 Feb 2003 06:21:44 -0600
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"Barry Barcrest" writes:
> From what i've read it's only 25 years on published works and i'd
> asume this includes software... 70 years for films only, so in 2009
> we would be clear.
Well, I was being US-centric, of course; UK law might be involved in
Elite too, for all I know. But I'm pretty sure that in the US it's 75
years on everything, and in 1998 that was extended 20 years for
anything about to expire.
Here's a good article on the whole idea:
--
From nobody Tue Feb 11 18:31:11 2003
Newsgroups: alt.fan.elite
Subject: Re: Patches for E-TNK
Organization: ESC
Date: 11 Feb 2003 18:31:11 -0600
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"Barry Barcrest" writes:
> Can we add these to X-Elite???
Feel free to do whatever you want with them, but get them soon. If
E-TNK is going to be unavailable, I'll probably remove those patches
soon too.
--
From nobody Wed Feb 12 07:36:57 2003
Newsgroups: alt.fan.elite
Subject: Re: Patches for E-TNK
Organization: ESC
Date: 12 Feb 2003 07:36:57 -0600
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nospam@notathome.ntlworld.com (Corncrake) writes:
> Thanks, got them !
> I share your frustrations over that "Mass locked"
> out-of-scanner-experience thing :)
> One of these days I must get round to a "disable it totally
> key " patch !!
That would be very easy, but I decided not to. After all, the whole
point of the game (at least after you make enough money to equip your
ship decently) is to shoot stuff.
> Have you got a compiled/executable version I wonder ?
> Hmm, I suppose this is a bad time to ask,, but if you have
> not already got an email then one can live in hope ? maybe??
My executable is compiled for FreeBSD, and it's sort of broken right
now. I got tired of flying to anarchies and having most of the ships
refuse to attack me, so I patched it to make them all angry and as
brave as possible. But some still won't attack me, so I must have
missed something.
I also changed witchspace so it randomly creates 3-5 Thargoids instead
of 1-3, just for fun. These also are angry and ultra-brave, so that
turned out to be a big mistake. They pulverize me in a matter of
seconds.
--
From nobody Wed Feb 12 07:45:25 2003
Newsgroups: alt.fan.elite
Subject: Re: Elite TNK Mac OS X - Rest In Peace
References: <120220031159582125%hallan@nospambtinternet.com>
Organization: ESC
Date: 12 Feb 2003 07:45:25 -0600
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Hugh Allan writes:
> If the source to Darkness Falls is released I'll be first in line to
> port this sucker to the Mac, and we can keep Elite alive, because
> nobody else but us is going to do it.
I figured I'd offer to help port DF to Unix. Like you, TNK got me
interested in C coding again, if just to write some small patches.
--
From nobody Mon Feb 17 11:00:22 2003
Newsgroups: alt.fan.elite
Subject: Re: TNK - help needed for a grey haired commander just out of retirement
References: <86ea3f0.0302170555.262fc712@posting.google.com>
Organization: ESC
Date: 17 Feb 2003 11:00:22 -0600
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adriangostling@yahoo.co.uk (Oh Great One) writes:
> When my Amstrad 128 died and I purchased Elite for PC I was so
> disapointed it was rubbish, now 15+ years later I discovered by
> accident elite TNK 2 days before it was pulled, well done CP for
> bringing an old commander out of retirement. I cannot get my energy
> bomb to work and I'm on the first mission hunting around Reesdice
> for the stolen ship - any tips.
Dock at Reesdice, and hit the key (F6, I think) to bring up the planet
info. At the bottom, there'll be a message for you.
--
From nobody Tue Feb 18 06:03:58 2003
Newsgroups: alt.fan.elite
Subject: Re: TNK - help needed for a grey haired commander just out of retirement
Organization: ESC
Date: 18 Feb 2003 06:03:58 -0600
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adriangostling@yahoo.co.uk (Oh Great One) writes:
> If I remember rightly are you the guy who has written some useful
> patches, if so how do I install them (is so easy on live update !!!)
If you're on Windows, I don't know. I think the patches should work,
but I don't know how to apply them. If you're on Unix, you need the
source files (which you're not supposed to have now, of course).
Unpack the source files, and copy the patches into the same
directory. Then do:
for i in *.patch; do patch <$i; done
Then compile and install as normal.
--
From nobody Mon Feb 24 07:20:06 2003
Newsgroups: alt.fan.elite
Subject: Re: Elite TNK
References: <86ea3f0.0302240230.31945cf1@posting.google.com>
Organization: ESC
Date: 24 Feb 2003 07:20:05 -0600
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adriangostling@yahoo.co.uk (Oh Great One) writes:
> My Galactic Hyperspace won't work, I press G then H and nothing
> happens,
Try Ctrl-H.
--
From nobody Mon Feb 24 19:58:09 2003
Newsgroups: alt.fan.elite
Subject: Re: Constrictor mission
References:
Organization: ESC
Date: 24 Feb 2003 19:58:09 -0600
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"Ian McCall" writes:
> Fine, over to Arexe we go only to be told that the Constrictor was
> fitted with a galactic hyperdrive and used it. Fine. Use a galactic
> hyperdrive and....
> ...nothing. Can't find it anywhere. Where the hell is the ship?
After using his galactic hyperdrive, he hyperspaced to one of the
planets within the 7.0 range of a full tank of fuel. Make a list of
all the planets within range of where you enter the galaxy (ORORRA?)
and visit them all until you find the right one.
--
From nobody Thu Feb 27 06:50:32 2003
Newsgroups: alt.fan.elite
Subject: Re: Playing on Linux?
References:
Organization: ESC
Date: 27 Feb 2003 06:50:32 -0600
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ras2 writes:
> I seem to have gotten a bit lost in all the various versions,
> projects, emulators and whatnot, so I'm trying to get an idea of
> which versions people play on Linux.
I'm on FreeBSD, but the versions are the same. I've played Elite:TNK,
which is a native version compiled from C code, and is almost
perfectly true to the old 8-bit versions, except that it has more
color, textured ships and other objects, and it doesn't slow way down
when stuff explodes. :-)
I've also played the C64 version in the Vice emulator. This works
fine, and it has the added advantage of the emulator's snapshot
function, so you can save a snapshot of your game at any time, instead
of having to be safely docked. In every other way, E:TNK is superior,
but if you don't already have it, you're out of luck there.
--
From nobody Thu Feb 27 07:28:15 2003
Newsgroups: alt.fan.elite
Subject: Re: Press ' i ' for info. Where is it?
References: <1hrr5v874bh2nlu5g2oifcbfkee1giofng@4ax.com> <56tr5vs0m8kgtq0o7kti15th3ehdod4mri@4ax.com>
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Date: 27 Feb 2003 07:28:14 -0600
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Lucian Wischik writes:
> I vageuly remember that ships started out as 2x2 pixels when they
> were very distant. Then they got a bit closer and became just 1x1
> pixel. Then they got closer and became more recognisable.
It worked something like that on the C64 version. When a ship first
appeared, it'd just be a dot, which on the C64 in multicolor 160x200
mode would really be 2 pixels wide. Then when the ship got closer,
it'd sort of disappear, because the game would start trying to
actually draw it, but wouldn't put enough on the screen to see very
well. It's hard to describe, but if you stopped moving, you could see
it as kind of a distortion, since it wouldn't be drawn constantly or
smoothly at all.
One good way to shoot things at a distance back then was to target a
missile and then start aiming. When the missile beeped, you knew you
were pointed correctly, and started firing. Then re-target the
same missile, and move on to the next target.
--
From nobody Thu Feb 27 07:44:59 2003
Newsgroups: alt.fan.elite
Subject: Re: Elite - Status report
References:
Organization: ESC
Date: 27 Feb 2003 07:44:57 -0600
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Daniel Durrant writes:
> I know I'm ranting but this is a matter which could be SO beneficial
> to everyone here if conducted reasonably.
I don't see how. I'm fairly new to the 'scene' here, having
subscribed to the newsgroup just a few weeks before the controversy,
but it seemed pretty obvious to me right from the start that the end
result was predetermined. I assumed the entire conversation was just
for looks. At no time did I ever think
Come on, shareware? Most shareware products don't make much money.
We're talking about a reproduction of a 20-year old game (well done,
but still), the original version of which can be downloaded from 100
different places and played on a dozen different emulators. And it's
supposed to bring in enough money to split three ways and be worth
the trouble? Not a chance.
It all seems pretty cut-and-dried to me. Christian wrote E:TNK
knowing that it violated a copyright, and he was very up-front about
that. David has every right to assert his copyright, and he did so,
and Christian immediately pulled the game. People were disappointed,
but not surprised, and everything was cool. Then for some reason it
became necessary to start trying to shift blame where none existed in
the first place, presumably to mollify users who would be likely to
buy future Elite versions.
I can't blame Christian for getting miffed (if he is) by the
suggestion that he's somehow keeping E:TNK from being available, when
he was giving it away for free until stopped.
--
From nobody Thu Feb 27 12:24:14 2003
Newsgroups: alt.fan.elite
Subject: Re: Elite - Status report
Organization: ESC
Date: 27 Feb 2003 12:24:14 -0600
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"Ian McCall" writes:
> Just a guess here but I don't think the issue is money, or at least
> not money derived from shareware fees. I think the shareware tag is
> to ensure the game is regarded as proprietary and copyright.
If so, that makes no sense. All software is copyright, unless you
specifically release it into the public domain. Putting a price tag
on it doesn't increase the validity of the copyright one bit. There
are plenty of license schemes out there that do a fine job of
retaining copyright while allowing free distribution and code re-use.
What insisting on a shareware release *does* do is ensure that nothing
will ever happen unless all the parties involved work together on it.
Look, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here. If David, Ian,
Christian, and whoever else is involved can form some sort of ad-hoc
company to sell E:TNK and make a few bucks off it, that's great. I
just don't think that's possible, for various reasons, and I don't
think it's the point anyway.
--
From nobody Thu Feb 27 20:13:16 2003
Newsgroups: alt.fan.elite
Subject: Re: Playing on Linux?
Organization: ESC
Date: 27 Feb 2003 20:13:16 -0600
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ras2 writes:
> I just installed Vice. Very nice. It even emulates the long loading
> times...
> Whoo. My first relatively real game of Elite in ... twelve years or
> so: Jumped to Diso, crashed into two asteroids and then got killed
> by some pirates (I should probably see if I can get the keyboard set
> up right. And buy a joystick).
No need for a joystick; it's got great keyboard controls. When I play
PC games that allow the keyboard to be reconfigured, I usually assign
things the same as Elite had them.
S and X for up and down, comma and period to spin left and right,
space to accelerate, slash to decelerate, and A to fire.
--
From nobody Tue Mar 4 20:38:03 2003
Newsgroups: alt.fan.elite
Subject: Re: freeware
References:
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Date: 04 Mar 2003 20:38:01 -0600
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dforemanuk@yahoo.co.uk (Daniel Foreman) writes:
> If DB was to turn Elite into Freeware that allows the code to be
> altered and distributed freely correct? Would this then, if original
> elite where to become freeware, mean that other companies could then
> make games called Elite and get away with just saying "well I
> based it on the freeware version, not the frontier series"?
> After all isn't announcing a game as freeware as good as giving
> up your claim to it?
Not necessarily. Freeware isn't a technical term; it's a vague
concept that people use to refer to all sorts of software that's free
of charge, but there are dozens of licenses that could apply to such
software. Software can be free of charge and yet have many
restrictions. There's no relationship between the price of the
software and the strength of the copyright.
A whole pile of different licenses can be found here:
. Many of them allow code to be
modified, redistributed, improved upon, and even profited upon by
others, yet they allow the original creator to retain his copyright.
--
From nobody Sat Mar 8 15:43:03 2003
Newsgroups: alt.fan.elite
Subject: Re: Virus Hell ! W32.Yaha.k@mm.enc
References: <3e67a5c0$0$57460$1b62eedf@news.euronet.nl> <874r6f8iv5.fsf@gvdnet.dk> <3E69FA7>
Organization: ESC
Date: 08 Mar 2003 15:43:03 -0600
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Kegs writes:
> "Dunny" writes:
> > Interesting that the headers from your message proclaim that you
> > posted using OE 6 then!
> Erm, no they don't, see?
His previous message, the one that professed sorrow for the feet of
those using Windows, did:
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
>>>> Oh I do feel so sorry for you poor soles who are still using
>>>> Microsoft operating systems - Since I moved to Linux [snip]
--
From nobody Mon Mar 10 17:56:14 2003
Newsgroups: alt.fan.elite
Subject: Re: Elite in 24 hours
References: <3e60e0ce.750964@news.dsl.pipex.com> <8qt8a.12201$no1.97708224@news-text.cableinet.net> <3e6499d8$0$19301$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk> <3e6505c3.838461@news.dsl.pipex.com> <3e67c4a1$0$19305$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk> <3e686a55.446159@news.dsl.pipex.com> <87adg78np8.fsf@gvdnet.dk> <3e68a30a.920589@news.dsl.pipex.com> <87y93r6t34.fsf@gvdnet.dk> <3e68d7bf.180179@news.dsl.pipex.com> <87ptp36m3u.fsf@gvdnet.dk> <874r6d3k0i.fsf@gvdnet.dk>
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Date: 10 Mar 2003 17:56:13 -0600
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dylan@vexed2.alioth.net (Dylan Smith) writes:
> Just to make it better, I'll combine it with perl:
> #!/usr/bin/perl
> use strict;
>
> for (my $i=0; $i < 250; $i++)
Bah, no self-respecting perl programmer would write that, when he
could do:
for (0..250){
--
From nobody Fri Apr 18 19:59:49 2003
Newsgroups: alt.fan.elite
Subject: Re: Elite TNK
References: <20030418191249.18809.00000209@mb-m11.aol.com>
Organization: ESC
Date: 18 Apr 2003 19:59:49 -0500
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derektorrance@aol.com (Derek torrance) writes:
> I am trying to complete the first special mission but cannot find
> the ship, I am currently in Galatic chart 2 after a tip that it
> hyperspaced. any Ideas? I have been searching for it now for seven
> days.....
Go to the system where you entered the galaxy. Make a list of all the
planets within range of one jump, and visit each of them. When you
dock at each one, check the 'system info' screen (one of the F keys)
for the special message.